Eastern European (Hungary?) or German mark?

[jackk]

Hi, I'm a little puzzled over this mark. I tend toward eastern europe but my intuition failed me before and this forum is a gift that I go to when in doubt. There is a visible number 13 on the bottom of the mark. Something that looks like a "6" or "G" on the left side. Also, there are initials of the maker that look like "JM". Any help?
Thank you,
Jack

[admin]

jack,
What are the 2 little touchmarks to the left of the 13 mark?

regards, Tom

[jackk]

It lis too small and faded to be sure but it looks like a combined VR. I am attaching a drawing of it.

Jack

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[admin]

Nice drawing! According to Tardy, the VR in a round cartouche (notched at the bottom) is an Austria-Hungary mark used 1866-1922 as a remark on antiques.
The 13 town mark I read as a tower with a gate at the bottom surrounded by date numerals - all above the 13 lothig mark, would seem to be 1860s. A quick scan through Tardy shows Budapest & Szehesfervar as possibilities. Take that as a preliminary finding, I'm sure there are other towns it can be and my reference resources in the area are woefully inadequate.

Regards, Tom

[blakstone]

Definitely Budapest; more accurately, the Hungarian city of Pest before it, Buda and Óbuda were combined into the modern Budapest in 1873. "JM" is the maker József Müller (Master 1823, died 1864), who used this mark from 1836. Given that Müller died in 1864, the last digit of the year looks most like a "3" for 1863.

Hope this helps!

[jackk]

Once again, this forum proves to be my best resource. Is the "3" on the mark the digit of the year? It seems to me like a silver finess mark. The only other digit I see is a "6" on the left side.

Jacek

[blakstone]

The 13 at the bottom is the fineness; the number which would be the last digit of the year is worn, but I think it might be a 3. Here's a clear image of the full mark:

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