18th Nuremberg silver cup ?

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vervenesilver
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18th Nuremberg silver cup ?

Post by vervenesilver »

Hello everybody,

I have this silver gilt cup, she's broken but nice, someone can help me for the hallmarks please ?

Thanks !

Image
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Theoderich
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Re: 18th Nuremberg silver cup ?

Post by Theoderich »

I don't even dare to write anything about it. I think it's really nice work. I also believe that the "engravings" are etched. To do this, the object was covered with a fine layer of wax and the wax was then removed with a graver from the areas where the acid would later do its work. A really interesting discovery. Such objects were also copied many times. There is an expert in Germany who can certainly say more about this than I can.
vervenesilver
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Re: 18th Nuremberg silver cup ?

Post by vervenesilver »

Thanks Theoderich,

Did you know where I can found more information ?
Theoderich
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Re: 18th Nuremberg silver cup ?

Post by Theoderich »

vervenesilver wrote:Thanks Theoderich,

Did you know where I can found more information ?
I can You say, who can You give more Informations.
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Old Silver: Imitations-Copies-Fakes 01-Jun-1978
by Ernst-Ludwig Richter

de Supinis Latinae Linguae, Part 5... 06-Apr-2012
by Ernst-Ludwig Richter
Theoderich
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Re: 18th Nuremberg silver cup ?

Post by Theoderich »

Unfortunately the piece is damaged. But you have to be very careful and only entrust it to a very experienced specialist. Here, too, Mr. Richter can advise you. I can send you a PM with contact details so you can contact him directly.
AG2012
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Re: 18th Nuremberg silver cup ?

Post by AG2012 »

Hi,
Can you show us the back of the bowl where it was broken; I might help with the advice how to repair it because I have done professional repairs myself in a goldsmith`s workshop.
First of all, direct hard soldering is out of question because high temperature 450°C - 900°C and eventual acid pickling would destroy gilding.
Secondly, never use tin - lead based soft solder.
Probably the best idea would be to cut the thread (screw) but, again, an image of the back is needed.
Regards
Theoderich
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Re: 18th Nuremberg silver cup ?

Post by Theoderich »

You shouldn't do anything here. You can destroy a lot there. It is better to do nothing than to do something wrong.
Only a very specialized expert can do that.
AG2012
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Re: 18th Nuremberg silver cup ?

Post by AG2012 »

I was benevolent enough to tell what NOT to do. One cannot trust ``experts`` these days; they would suggest museum repair and then ruin the piece of silver. You are welcome to ask what was suggested as professional repair before it`s too late.
Regards
Theoderich
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Re: 18th Nuremberg silver cup ?

Post by Theoderich »

You said it. A lot can go wrong here.
vervenesilver
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Re: 18th Nuremberg silver cup ?

Post by vervenesilver »

Hello Theo, thanks for the 2 books references. I will buy them.

For the restorations, in France we have good professsional silversmiths who can repair without destroying.

But before that I would like to know from which period this object is
AG2012
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Re: 18th Nuremberg silver cup ?

Post by AG2012 »

Before any repair ASK what`s to be done.Because once it`s finished you will never know what`s inside the joint.
One could simply use soft tin lead based solder at low temperature, fix it and you will never know.
Theoderich
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Re: 18th Nuremberg silver cup ?

Post by Theoderich »

In order to get certainty about the authenticity of your object it is absolutely necessary to perform a scientific examination of the bowl. The knowledge of the elemental composition of the silver may answer the question: is the bowl an authentic object of the early 17th century or an imitation of the 19th century?

The authority with the most reputation in this field is Prof. Dr. Ernst-Ludwig Richter in Germany. Within the past thirty years he created a large data bank containing the analytical results of more than 3.000 European silver objects.

Richter’s international reputation was proved when Christie’s in Paris asked him to examine the silver objects of the Eve Saint Lauraint collection for the large sale in 2009.

I believe that Mr. Richter is readily prepared to help you and I am sure that his work will be free of charge for You.

I can really recommend that you get to know him personally.

I will send you the contact details in a private message.
Theoderich
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Re: 18th Nuremberg silver cup ?

Post by Theoderich »

I think I was able to decipher the content of this scene. My first thought was that it would be Holy Communion, but apparently there are also women sitting at this table, so I had to quickly dismiss this thought. Then I thought of a holy Passover, with the sacrificial lamb on the table, but I had to discard that thought too.
It is Jesus at the wedding at Cana. In the foreground you can see wine cans that were emptied during the festival and then filled with water. Here Jesus performed the miracle of turning water into wine.
Theoderich
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Re: 18th Nuremberg silver cup ?

Post by Theoderich »

Concerning your bowl I had contacted Professor Richter, who thereupon had collected interesting information about the bowl. He is readily prepared to pass on these results - but not to an anonymous person. Professor Richter would like to know to whom these information will be passed.
vervenesilver
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Re: 18th Nuremberg silver cup ?

Post by vervenesilver »

I have contact Professor Richter, and when I have news I will post them on the forum.

For moment, of course I didn't repair this piece
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