Hamburg Spoon? "A" On The Door

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
Essexboy Fisher
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Hamburg Spoon? "A" On The Door

Postby Essexboy Fisher » Fri May 08, 2020 6:53 pm

Hello, I saw on line, another spoon that I thought might have a little research in it. I thought it was continental and possibly a pre 1886 Hamburg area spoon. It does have a 1876 "personalisation". At 23 centimetres long I assume it was a server and I hope I am correct posting the spoon pictures in this Germany section. The "castle" mark seems to have a capital letter "A" in the gateway (doorway), but I am not totally sure about the likely maker's mark.

Image

I understand that the capital letter in the doorway is an indicator for Hamburg Assay Masters and 4 Masters with different letters functioned at the same time. The nearest dated Assay Master using the letter "A" that I found was "Jacob Nicolaus Wilhelm Schäffer" (1828-1851). There are examples of this Master's mark with other maker's marks shown in the Germany reference section of our Forum. However if my new spoon was made nearer the "personalisation" date of 1876 then who may have been the next Assay Master using "A"? My hope is, that the silversmith mark can be identified for the spoon and gives working dates that helps and confirm if "Schaeffner" or another Assay Master was involved in its validation. I see from our reference section that the Hamburg guild was dissolved in 1865 but there was a transitional period before the standardisation of all German silver in 1886. Was my spoon marked during that transitional period?

Image

The makers mark could be "WII", ", "IIM" or even alpha numerical "W11" or "11M". I even thought in the first instance that maybe it was cyrilic lettering but there could be damage to the W/M in the makers mark and there could be a pellet in the centre of the mark.
I hope there is the knowledge from the Forum to sort out the maker of my spoon and to expand on what I believe about the Hamburg Guild and the Assay Masters.

Fishless

Theoderich
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Re: Hamburg Spoon? "A" On The Door

Postby Theoderich » Sat May 09, 2020 8:20 am

MZ: [IIM] = Johann Jacob Meyer

Master 1817
He transferred his workshop to Immanuel Adalbert Notzke in 1855.
+1863

Essexboy Fisher
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Re: Hamburg Spoon? "A" On The Door

Postby Essexboy Fisher » Sun May 10, 2020 12:14 pm

Thank you Theoderich for identifying "Johann Jakob Meyer" as the maker of my Hamburg spoon.
I think I have an English translation corresponding to the information you have added for us. My quote is from an auction catalogue describing an item made by the "Immanuel Adalbert Notzke" also as referenced by Theoderich.

"Stamped I.A.Notzke and Hamburg city inspection. The goldsmith is Immanuel Adalbert Notzke. He took over the office of Johann Jakob Meyer in 1855 and was still mentioned in the address book as a gold and silver worker after 1864. A spoon has been preserved in the Museum of Arts and Crafts in Hamburg (depot no. 2627)."

It seems from Theoderich's information that my spoon was personalised probably at least 20 years after it was made by Johann Jakob Meyer. I am assuming the "Master" date of 1817 was the start of Meyer's full qualification to be a silversmith and 1855 was likely the finish of his business. That said he may of course, have made a few items in the "retirement" period, but the likely truth is that my spoon was made in "J N W Schäffer" (1828-1851) assay master period. Again I have made speculations about my spoon so do please add any information you may know to support or to correct me.

Fishless

P.s.
Also referenced in this German section of the Forum is
“J. A. NOTZKE” for Immanuel Adalbert Notzke (1831-ca. 1864), citizen & master 1855 [Schliemann #680].

theantiquetrail
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Re: Hamburg Spoon? "A" On The Door

Postby theantiquetrail » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:13 pm

So I am researching some Hamburg spoons also, and I wonder if I might ask for some help. I have 9 tablespoons, fiddle and thread pattern, Hamburg. They only have two marks - Hamburg town mark, with letter E in the door, and a single letter F in a rectangular cartouche. The Assay master for letter E ( and, it would appear, letter F - perhaps someone could explain that one to me) was Johann H J Wienicke, 1857-65. My main question is, is it possible to tell the fineness of the silver without a loth mark? And secondly, in order of importance, was the second mark of a letter F just the assay master's alternative recognition mark, or does it have another meaning? I would really value some help if anyone can fill me in. Thank you all.

I've tried to insert a pic, but can't get it to work!!

dognose
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Re: Hamburg Spoon? "A" On The Door

Postby dognose » Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:27 am

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

Please start a new topic with your question.

Your question cannot be answered without the required images.

The below should help you:

How to Add Images

Posting Requirements

https://postimages.org (choose 'Share', then copy the 'Hotlink for forums' code) is recommended. Do not use Photobucket or Dropbox.

Ensure your images are embedded. Do not post links. Remember to use the 'Preview' button before submitting your post.

For more information see:

http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... 82#p103282

Give some time to creating your posts and we'll give some time to researching and answering them.

Trev.

theantiquetrail
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Re: Hamburg Spoon? "A" On The Door

Postby theantiquetrail » Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:55 am

Thanks Trev. Duly noted. I have registered with injure, saved my photos there, and am ready to begin a new topic. The help menu tells me I have to click on "new Topic" but as hard as I look, I can't find the button. Could you be very kind and tell me where to find it? Sorry to be so dumb!

theantiquetrail
Posts: 4
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Re: Hamburg Spoon? "A" On The Door

Postby theantiquetrail » Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:57 am

IMGUR. Sorry my spellcheck drives me mad!!

dognose
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Location: England

Re: Hamburg Spoon? "A" On The Door

Postby dognose » Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:25 am

Hi,

Click on the 'German Silver' section, and then you'll see it in the top left-hand corner.

Trev.

theantiquetrail
Posts: 4
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Re: Hamburg Spoon? "A" On The Door

Postby theantiquetrail » Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:23 am

Got it! Thank you so much for your help!


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