Help to identify origin and age of this drageoir

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
Italiansilver
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:39 pm

Help to identify origin and age of this drageoir

Postby Italiansilver » Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:49 am

Hi all,
I have this "drageoir" in perfect french style.
I have found some examples very very similar all perfectly french marked.
Mine has three marks, two are very worn and one (800) is pretty new.
My idea is that the 800 is a new mark made when the drageoir has been repaired (there are some indication of small restorations), but the other two have no french marks.
I took some pictures , that are not the best, but are the best of what I can do.

Image
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the firs mark seems an horseshoe with a letter inside, the second totally unreadable...

and this is one example found in the net
Image
Image

huszas76
contributor
Posts: 599
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:53 am
Location: Hungary, Budapest

Re: Help to identify origin and age of this drageoir

Postby huszas76 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:41 am

The second mark seems a german hallmark, crescent moon and crown.
If it is right, maybe could be easier to find the maker.
Best regards!
Krisztián

Italiansilver
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:39 pm

Re: Help to identify origin and age of this drageoir

Postby Italiansilver » Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:06 pm

good hint I'll try to search.

the second mark to me was resembling to an arm with fist with beside something that a lily :-)

Italiansilver
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:39 pm

Re: Help to identify origin and age of this drageoir

Postby Italiansilver » Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:23 pm

huszas76 wrote:The second mark seems a german hallmark, crescent moon and crown.
If it is right, maybe could be easier to find the maker.
Best regards!
Krisztián

would say great!!!!
I was looking to the relief part of the mark!!!!! Not to the impressed!!!!!!!
A very similar horseshoe mark is present in the german unidentified marks section
thanks

Italiansilver
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:39 pm

Re: Help to identify origin and age of this drageoir

Postby Italiansilver » Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:47 pm

Oberländer P. GmbH - Hanau
without any doubts
http://www.silvercollection.it/GERMANMA ... OTObis.jpg

many many thanks

vary happy to have found the origin after some years but a bit disappointed to discover that is Hanau silver

AG2012
contributor
Posts: 4126
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Help to identify origin and age of this drageoir

Postby AG2012 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:58 pm

Hi,
Hufeisen (Horseshoe) mark appears with AHK, not necessarily Hanau.
Rostock might be the candidate,too (the mark on a souvenir spoon from that town),an assumption,though.
Regards

Image

Italiansilver
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:39 pm

Re: Help to identify origin and age of this drageoir

Postby Italiansilver » Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:27 pm

thank you for your effort,
but, for the moment, it seems that all my three marks are very resembling to the example in the link...

Italiansilver
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:39 pm

Re: Help to identify origin and age of this drageoir

Postby Italiansilver » Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:46 pm

anyway are not pseudomarks, because there is the regular crown&crescent moon, am I right?

AG2012
contributor
Posts: 4126
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Re: Help to identify origin and age of this drageoir

Postby AG2012 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:51 pm

By definition``Pseudo marks`` resemble old marks and it's difficult to say if they were used to deceive because many Hanau items,beside pseudo marks,had crescent and crown and millesimal fineness that absolutely excluded earlier centuries.
Regards

Italiansilver
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:39 pm

Re: Help to identify origin and age of this drageoir

Postby Italiansilver » Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:59 am

Hi I was meaning that there aren't marks resembling ancient marks.
Are not regular german hallmarks + maker's mark?
Am I right?

AG2012
contributor
Posts: 4126
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Help to identify origin and age of this drageoir

Postby AG2012 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:06 am

Right, full set of regular German marks on this item.


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