Need help with maker's mark and date

[frenchie_myriam]

Hello everyone,

Here is a lovely german dip pen but I cannot trace who the maker can be as well as date. Can anyone help ?

Thanking you in advance

Best Regards
Myriam
http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/26608125879.jpg

[gemsdiver]

It looks it could be a piece by Rudolf Trunck of Strasbourg who was active around 1900.


Regards

Andy

[frenchie_myriam]

Many thanks Andy

Best Regards
Myriam

[gemsdiver]

Here is the link to the mark Myriam. It´s the 16th mark down, on the right side of the page.

http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_marks_a1884.html


Andy

[Bahner]

Hello, even this mark is listed as that of Trunck, this is not so. It is the mark of Martin Mayer from Mainz, first registered in 1894. It is the wheel from the coat of arms of Mainz, together with a little star on the side. The two digit number represents the object: '13' is for match boxes, '17' for bottle stands, '24' for belt buckles etc. The style suggests a date around 1905. Best wishes, Bahner

[frenchie_myriam]

So many thanks Bahner, I suspected it was not TRUNCK because the mark was not exactly similar to the one depicted in the German marks.

Have a nice day
Best Regards
Myriam

[gemsdiver]

Far be it for me to question your wealth of knowledge Bahner, but, I have this silver buckle which I attribute to Martin Mayer. This mark is very different to the mark on Myriam´s piece. Which one is correct?





Best wishes

Andy

[Bahner]

Hello, both are correct. The mark on Your buckle is the mark used on pieces for export. It often comes with as silver fineness higher than 800 or 835. Both marks have been documented in books published in the 1920ies. Best wishes, Bahner

[gemsdiver]

Thanks Bahner, you learn something new every day.
So the "Trunck" mark I described in the link is also Martin Mayer?

Andy

[Bahner]

Hello, yes, both are Mayer's. Trunck was a Jeweller and probably stamped his name as the retailer of a Mayer piece. Best wishes, Bahner

[frenchie_myriam]

Hello Andy and Bahner,

This forum is really great because your mail exchange has just solved an enigma because I have another dip pen with the mark you have on the buckle so now I know I have 2 pieces by Martin Mayer.

Do not hesitate if you need some help with french silver. It would be my pleasure to return the favour.

Have a great day
Myriam

[admin]

Hi All,
Interestingly, the mark was originally catalogued on German Hallmarks after 1886 as Mayer's. About a year ago I received an email from Germany, the writer explained that if the star was above the wheel, it was Trunck and if to the right it was Mayer. As Krekel-Aalberse in "Art Nouveau & Art Deco Silver" illustrates Mayer's mark with the star to the right (as on Myriam's pen), it seemed logical enough to make the change. The mark on GD's buckle refutes this, as do Bahner's sources.
I will change the attribution back to Mayer, but I'm now curious to see if there is any record of a mark, aside from stamped name, for Trunck. Bahner, can you have a look around for one? Unfortunately, I can't find the original email to recontact the Trunck attributor.
Regards, Tom

[Bahner]

Hello, I have found no information whatsoever on a Trunck in Strassburg. There was a Ph. Trunck in Pforzheim, maker of silver chains, small silver jewellery etc. He is first documented around 1908 and seems to have been active well into the 1920ies. His mark was: letters 'P' and 'T' intertwined. I am a little sceptical about this statement concerning the placement of the star in the mark. Just a gut feeling, but it does not sound plausible. Best wishes, Bahner

[admin]

Thanks Bahner, much appreciated.
Tom

[blakstone]

I have to echo Bahner's sentiment, this business about the star placement sounds bogus. Mayer's two marks in this post - the local and the export - are both illustrated and identified just as Bahner says in my period copy of Diebener's 1925 Deutscher Goldschmiede-Kalendar.

[salmoned]

Sorry to dredge up an old post, but since the photos are now unavailable I hope to get clarification. I own a sugar tongs bearing the Martin Mayer mark shown in the directory (horizontal oval frame, M, wheel with star above, M), along with the usual half moon, crown and 800. Is that the mark for export or just another alternate mark? Can this mark be dated in some manner? Thank you. [Sorry no photo, camera is down]

[admin]

The top mark with oval and MM is the export mark.

Forgot all about this post, I did eventually find the email with the Rudolph Trunck attribution, its reference was to an illustration of the mark in "Schmuck der 20er und 30er Jahre Deutschland" by Christianne Weber.

Regards, Tom

[Bahner]

Hello, looked it up in the book Tom mentioned - neither Trunk nor his mark nor Mayer are listed in it ! So I guess this rules Trunk completely out. Best wishes, Bahner

[admin]

Thanks Bahner, that removes my last lingering doubt, appreciate it.
Regards, Tom