Gustav Memmert. Berlin 1890-1930.

[Dendriet]

Hi all,

I think with 100% certainty that they are manufactured by Gustav Memmert. Berlin 1890-1930.

Indeed, one could say that 800M stands for 800 thousandths, which are usually used in Belgium as non-official marks. In the period 1869 - 1942
It does not seem logical that this happened twice with 800M and one with official Gothic letter A2

It is known that in the period 1869 - 1942 many German and French silver were imported into Belgium.
In addition, the law of 5 June 1868 became effective.
The silver in Germany and France was much cheaper .....

Finally, these examples are completely in line with Gustav Memmert.

Sorry Trev, but this time I had to show them all the two at the same time.
I had my doubts either Belgium or Germany
Because it was manufactured in Germany, so Germany it will be.

Both:
Gothic letter A2 top
Makers mark 800M underneath





Dendriet

[silverfan]

Hello Dendriet,
M behind fineness does not mean Memmert! See my post "Dish with handle and gingko pattern" from 17th Aug 2016 and the following discussion.
Regards silverfan

[Dendriet]

Hi,

Silvervan, I had already read.
In some respects they are right (and I am one of them), but they are not sure either.
Many assumptions I read.
I follow my own intuitions.
I had also embedded this in my own story.
Otherwise, not only this forum, but also many others can do as if Gustav Memmert never existed.

Dendriet

[oel]

Hi,

Belgian Silver Marks 1869-1942
A silver object is guaranteed by means of two marks: the silver standard and the maker-manufacturer or retailer’s mark. In Belgium, the former included the gothic letter 'A' for Argent (silver) and either a number 1 or 2 for the silver standards, 900 or 800, respectively.





Dendriet has a point. What we see are only two marks. The official Belgian hallmark A2 for 2nd standard silver (800/000), used 1869-1942. As of the 1st July 1869 silversmiths did not have to register any longer and they did not have to present their works for assaying. Marks were no longer obliged. Nonetheless, one could ask the authorities for an assaying against payment. The good manufactures continued using a company mark and an assay mark, either by the assay office or self applied.
Dendried shows us a plate with a Belgian hallmark and the 800M mark in a rectangle, thus the 800M mark could be a company or maker's mark.

Gustav Memmert maker's mark 800M without a rectangle:
http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_marks_a1884_6.html
Edited image removed.

Yes, on the other hand we know 800M could mean 800 Millesime. Fineness mark applied by maker/retailer.
http://www.ascasonline.org/ARTICOLONOVE69.html

Peter.

[Dendriet]

Hi all,

Thanks Peter,

I have been doing some clearance work for a while.
Then you will come up with things like the above.
What you know exactly where and when and why.
Separately found in time (10 years) and distance (100 Km)
They had my attention by other (special) quality, which you usually find in France, but without these marks.

What was found of imported German and French silver.

French silver was mostly accompanied (including Makers Mark and all known marks except Minerva) with export marks with or without Belgian Hallmarks

German silver was always without moon and crown hallmark (only the Makers Mark) with or without Bellgisch Hallmarks.

Often they remained unnoticed and little interested because there were no clear hallmarks.

These above were noted by their very good quality, double mark, and known pros and cons. (Negotiation in price)

Dendriet

[silverfan]

Hi Oel,
your photo is the clear example that the M behind fineness does not mean Memmert, because in front of the 800 you see the eagle, the maker's mark of Bruckmann, Heilbronn.
Regards silverfan

[oel]

Hi Silverfan,

Yes you are right, I will remove the image. Could we say; if we see the crescent Moon and crown in combination with 800 M, the M could be for Gustav Memmert? I wonder if Memmert used higher fineness for example 925/000. Could the retail/maker's mark of Gustav Memmert be M? A Google image search of Gustav Memmert gives no clear result. Only doubtful attributions by dealers/sellers, like the one I showed or; 800 M J.W, 800M FR FYTAG, and 800M (without crescent moon and crown). Actually did Gustaf Memmert have a retailer/maker's mark? I am not sure.

http://925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20394

Best,

Peter

[Dendriet]

Hi all,

Thank you Silverfan and Peter Oel for your comments and patience.....

Otherwise, not only this forum, but also many others can do as if Gustav Memmert never existed.
Dendriet

The topic has been discussed many times on this forum without any real result.
I understand this, when no good documentation / reference work can be found.

What do we known of him ??
What is his real Makers Mark ??

It starts to look like a myth
I stop and spend no more time.

Thanks again
Dendriet

[Goldstein]

Hi all -

To make the confusion perfect ...



Regards
Goldstein

[oel]

Hi Goldstein,

Thanks, the utmost right mark fancy Z(?) could be a maker's mark and the 900M the fineness mark ; minimum 900/000 or minimum 84 zolotniki (875/000).


Best,

Peter