Cake server and soüp ladle with the same marks

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
silverfan
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Cake server and soüp ladle with the same marks

Postby silverfan » Tue May 03, 2016 8:06 am

Hi all,
one post because the two pieces have the same marks: 13 Lot, an eagle and S for the maker. There are some towns in Germany which have an eagle as their town mark, but I couldn't identify neither the town nor the maker. Has anybody an idea?
Regards silverfan
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Theoderich
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Re: Cake server and soüp ladle with the same marks

Postby Theoderich » Tue May 03, 2016 3:37 pm

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S is probably Schlemmer
the 13-mark is very similar

I am not sure - but the eagle could be Heilbronn

Dendriet
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Re: Cake server and soüp ladle with the same marks

Postby Dendriet » Wed May 04, 2016 3:09 pm

Hi Silverfan,

I would change the name of "Soup-ladle" into "Punch-ladle" so it will be a better set.

Best regards
Dendriet

silverfan
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Re: Cake server and soüp ladle with the same marks

Postby silverfan » Thu May 05, 2016 12:46 pm

I don't think that the two pieces want to be a set. For me it is a soup-ladle, a punch-ladle has a spout.
Regards silverfan

Dendriet
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Re: Cake server and soüp ladle with the same marks

Postby Dendriet » Thu May 05, 2016 2:37 pm


silverfan
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Re: Cake server and soüp ladle with the same marks

Postby silverfan » Thu May 05, 2016 4:53 pm

thanks Dendriet for this informative link. In Fig. 13 you see German Punch ladles with spout, the upper one with the typical broadening of the stem made around 1840 like my item.
Regards silverfan

Dendriet
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Re: Cake server and soüp ladle with the same marks

Postby Dendriet » Fri May 06, 2016 3:15 am

Hi Silverfan

I found the combination of soup ladle and cake server a little bit weird
The combination with a punch ladle and a cake server made more sense to me
But you're absolutely right, because it is not part of a set
It was well meant...

Best regard
Dendriet

silverfan
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Re: Cake server and soüp ladle with the same marks

Postby silverfan » Sun May 08, 2016 3:51 am

no other posts concerning town and maker!?
Regards silverfan

AG2012
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Re: Cake server and soüp ladle with the same marks

Postby AG2012 » Sun May 08, 2016 7:10 am

There is a possibility to be explored: Schweinfurt, Bayern (the eagle).19th century Schweinfurt is not well documented (crowned S or S with Loth number). The eagle was used much earlier, though. Then ``Beschauzeichen`` S for Schweinfurt in early 19th century is documented in Rosenberg # 4527. In that case, there is no maker`s mark, but single letter maker is uncommon,right?
(The handles are exactly the same and the ladle is too small to be a soup ladle; toddy ladle or whatever was served with pastries.I have seen several Vienna ladles and tea strainers with this type of wooden handles, all being early Biedermeier period).
Regards

Theoderich
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Re: Cake server and soüp ladle with the same marks

Postby Theoderich » Sun May 08, 2016 2:28 pm

S is the makersmark - S is probalby Schlemmer

DianaGaleM
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Re: Cake server and soüp ladle with the same marks

Postby DianaGaleM » Sun May 08, 2016 8:16 pm

I don't think that the two pieces want to be a set. For me it is a soup-ladle, a punch-ladle has a spout.


I agree. These are probably two pieces from a larger set.

AG2012
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Re: Cake server and soüp ladle with the same marks

Postby AG2012 » Mon May 09, 2016 2:36 am

Hi,
I think it depends on bowl size. My two small ladles with 5 cm (2 inches) across the bowl and 20 cm long are really too small for serving soup. They have no spout, either; both were made in Vienna close to 1800.

DianaGaleM
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Re: Cake server and soüp ladle with the same marks

Postby DianaGaleM » Mon May 09, 2016 10:23 am

Just a comment from your resident (retired) zoologist about the punch ladle article:

http://www.ascasonline.org/articoloOTTO67.html

The shell-shapes in Figure 3 are called "nautilus" shells. Nautilus shells are a flat spiral, coiling in one plane:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautilus

The ladles are in the shape of a snail shell, most likely intended to be one of the edible species, such as:

http://www.123rf.com/photo_2154662_helix-aspersa-a-k-a-edible-snail.html

Not intending to be argumentative, here, but how would you tell if you had a punch ladle without a lip vs. a soup ladle?

One expects the soup ladle to be larger — a serving of soup typically being larger than a serving of punch — though there must be at least some ladles where size, alone, would not distinguish them. With soup, the bowl is typically larger in diameter than the ladle, so even a thin soup is not going to dribble outside the bowl. Alcohol reduces the surface tension and viscosity of water, so an alcoholic beverage spills and splashes more easily than plain water or juice, making the lip on the ladle even more of an imperative. I just can't picture pouring something as thinly liquid as an alcoholic punch into little glasses without a lip on the ladle.

silverfan
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Re: Cake server and soüp ladle with the same marks

Postby silverfan » Mon May 09, 2016 3:24 pm

here the diameter of the soup-ladle: 8,8 cm. The cake server is better called a pastry server, because it is rather small. I add two more photos of a soup-ladle diameter 9,4 cm from the same source. It has also the maker's mark S, 13 Lot, but no eagle.
Nobody here would speak of punch ladles, but the more interesting question is from where do these items come and who is the maker.
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Theoderich
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Re: Cake server and soüp ladle with the same marks

Postby Theoderich » Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:49 am

This eagle mark is probably the hallmark of Villingen
and makersmark S is probably the makersmark of Josef Ignaz Schilling. Born 1793, Master 1818.

silverfan
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Re: Cake server and soüp ladle with the same marks

Postby silverfan » Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:32 pm

Because tinypi no longer works I post the photos again and I am very happy that Theoderich could solve the riddle.
Regards silverfan

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Theoderich
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Re: Cake server and soüp ladle with the same marks

Postby Theoderich » Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:14 am

Very nice silverfan,

but why I think this S-Mark is the makersmark of Josef Ignaz Schilling?
It is the same < 13 > mark like this !

http://silberpunze.freehost.ag/punzen/V ... illing.jpg

Theoderich
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Re: Cake server and soüp ladle with the same marks

Postby Theoderich » Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:21 am

Villingen
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