Ausberg Hanau Fake??? Jug

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
flycasta
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:56 pm

Ausberg Hanau Fake??? Jug

Postby flycasta » Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:09 am

Hi Everyone, I need a little help with this little Jug please. It has all the look of a Hanau period item and it has what I believe is the unattributed Hanau letter L. The other marks are what I originally thought was a half of an Augsberg mark but open to suggestions on that and I cant find anything on the other mark that looks like a flower with 6 petals with a stork and a leaf each side at the bottom...... although it also looks like only a half or part of a mark.

I am not worried if it is a fake as it is a nice little jug and has tested to 800 or slightly higher. Any help would be greatly appreciated please.

Maybe this piece can be added to the unattributed mark L.


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Thankyou Duane

AG2012
contributor
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Re: Ausberg Hanau Fake??? Jug

Postby AG2012 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:34 am

http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_hanau_marks_01.html
crowned L unidentified Hanau maker, but definitively Hanau.
Not a fake, remake of Augsburg, although the craftsmanship and ``how it`s made`` cannot be genuine Augsburg; look for soldering seams,repoussé and chasing.
Have a nice weekend

flycasta
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:56 pm

Re: Augsberg Hanau Fake??? Jug

Postby flycasta » Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:37 am

I cant see any signs of soldering apart from maybe this repair....... The work is what I would call absolutely excellent. There is little hammer marks around it in different spots mainly around the lip as it is flattened out and the marks are on the flat sections.

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When you say Repousse and chasing what exactly do you mean sorry? All of the external marks are visible on the inside as well and the extremely small details are amazing.

I am mainly interested to know what period it was made and if anyone has a makers name for it.

AG2012
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Re: Ausberg Hanau Fake??? Jug

Postby AG2012 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:02 am

Repoussé is a technique in which silver is ornamented or shaped by hammering from the reverse side to create a design in low relief. Then combined with chasing from outside to create a finished relief. Crowned L has not been identified so far (the link). Most of Hanau silver was made at the turn of 19th century, but also much later.
You can easily check what kind of solder is used – scratching with the tip of a needle will easily reveal soft solder that melts at a relatively low temperature.What is shown in your circle is really suspicious of soft solder repair.

flycasta
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Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:56 pm

Re: Ausberg Hanau Fake??? Jug

Postby flycasta » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:05 am

There is so much detail inside and outside with such fine detail that it is hard to see many hammer marks. The Pouring lip certainly has some hammer marks where it has been flattened out around the edges, certainly doesn't look like an after thoughts or trying to hide damage.

The solder of the suspected repair is definitely soft but I cant really find any solder anywhere else as it is so well done. If I scratch in the joints of the legs and the body it seems to be very solid, no where near as soft as the repair.


Does anyone recognize the Flower mark at all please? I would think that has something to do with the markers mark. Every pine cone mark I look at is not quite right that what leads me to think it might not be that old. Just really frustrated and would like a makers name and approx. age........

flycasta
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:56 pm

Re: Ausberg Hanau Fake??? Jug

Postby flycasta » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:22 am

This is the Augsberg Hallmark that was leading me to think it was Augsberg. The Bottom right mark is close but not quite right I think.

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AG2012
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Re: Ausberg Hanau Fake??? Jug

Postby AG2012 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:14 am

Cannot be Augsburg - it`s definitively Hanau silver. There are tons of Hanau silver marked with both the cone for Augsburg and N for Nuremberg (the most lucrative, intentionally faked or just fashionable). There are many ways to disclose later production - e.g. soldering seams joining both the walls and the bottom of a piece, sometimes well hidden (genuine Augsburg should have been hammered - raised from a single piece of metal). But what I say can be evaluated only if the item is in my hands. Btw. I have posted several excellent Hanau pieces with well hidden soldering seams within the decor.
Regards

flycasta
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:56 pm

Re: Ausberg Hanau Fake??? Jug

Postby flycasta » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:01 pm

Thank you very much for your responses.

I cant see any any seams at all anywhere and there appears to be hammer marks on the inside of the bottom but then again I suppose they could silver solder and then rework the area to make it look original. I have taken some shots of the inside of the piece...... if you could please take a look a give me your opinion that would be great. I appreciate you wont be able tog give a definite opinion without having the piece in your hand.

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Regards Duane

AG2012
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Re: Ausberg Hanau Fake??? Jug

Postby AG2012 » Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:08 am

It`s not a fake - just a Hanau remake. Acorn Augsburg marks were not added to deceive (it`s too obvious it cannot be Augsburg). But if unscrupulous sellers and naive buyers are combined you get an old Augsburg piece.

AG2012
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Re: Ausberg Hanau Fake??? Jug

Postby AG2012 » Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:12 am

Btw. the aesthetic taste at the turn of of 19th century was still deeply rooted with previous XVIII styles. There is a document from a retailer asking for ``Renaissance silver`` because `` customers were not interested in Art Nouveau (Jugendstil) style``

flycasta
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Re: Ausberg Hanau Fake??? Jug

Postby flycasta » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:48 pm

Thankyou very much for your help. I didn't think it was Augsberg either, initially I was just getting confused with the marks and thought there may be a possibility. So now we have the unidentified crowned L with some more marks to add to the unidentified list.

Do you think it may have been from the turn of the 19th century or later?


Regards Duane

flycasta
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:56 pm

Re: Ausberg Hanau Fake??? Jug

Postby flycasta » Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:14 pm

Sorry........ Unattributed......... not unidentified.

AG2012
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Re: Ausberg Hanau Fake??? Jug

Postby AG2012 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:48 am

Turn of the 19th century or a bit later. Based on many similar Hanau silver with import marks from various countries that helped to date a particular object.


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