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Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:27 pm
by tux
Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted
I absolutely don't know nothing about these markings, all information is welcome.
Somehow there are only 3 markings instead of the more common 4 markings?
The handles are all filled with sand.
I have 6 of them, and most are to worn to even see the markings, show are the best examples.
I hope this little information helps some, all info is welcome thanks!

Markings:
ER in heart
Key
capital I ?

Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:05 pm
by oel
Hi Tux, welcome back, could it be EP in a heart for: Electro Plated

For information about electroplating see and to answer your previous question:
http://www.925-1000.com/silverglossary2.html
George Elkington and Henry Elkington were awarded the first patents for electroplating in 1840. These two then founded the electroplating industry in Birmingham from where it spread around the world.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroplating

Oel.

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:10 pm
by tux
Hey Oel, thanks for answering.
Well Im not sure, it could be, but they key kind of looks like a city mark maybe?
I havent seen an EP marking inside a figure, only as loose text myself.

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:10 pm
by oel
Hi Tux,

Yes, the city of Leiden used a mark with a key( one key) and combined date letter for 2nd standard, but your knife blade looks not very old unless it is a replacement. I will check when I am home.
For EP in a shield browse
http://www.925-1000.com/silverplate_J.html
For example:
Image

Oel.

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:38 am
by tux
Ah yes your right, I ment more an EP in a heartshape. By now I found out that its actually ER in the heart, could the key be from Leuven, Belgium perhaps?

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 5:39 am
by oel
Yes, could be for the city of Leuven in Belgium. I hope to be home tonight and to be able to check the books.

Oel.

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:24 am
by tux
Update:
Bigger photo of ER maker-mark
Sand inside the handles is really fine and light-gray

Image

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:51 pm
by oel
Hi Tux,
Image

Hollow knife handles are often filled with fine sand.
Checked the books definitely not Leijden, your key, if it is a key, the bit of the key points to the left instead of to the right for Leijden, The Leijden single key mark only used with combined date letter.
Image
Leijden “kleine keur” for 1787

Not Leuven for an example of Leuven see image;
Image
From left to right; unknown maker’s mark, 81 for 1781, city mark of Leuven(turned 90`left; the oldest university city in the Low Countries, & and the key mark (key to knowledge)

Perhaps I could be German, for the city of Bremen, the key fits for around 18th century, let us ask Theodrich.


Oel.

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:08 pm
by tux
So it remains a mistery, I have seen different styles for the key for Leuven.
I hope Theodrich can answer this one, waiting for it :)

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:12 pm
by oel
Perhaps first you could show a little gratitude, and 2nd if you have seen different styles of the Leuven’s key mark without Leuven’s city mark and date code please show. Put your money were your mouth is and show us some images.
If not like we say in Dutch; kun je wachten tot je een ons weegt.

Kind regards,


Oel

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:45 pm
by tux
oel wrote:Perhaps first you could show a little gratitude, and 2nd if you have seen different styles of the Leuven’s key mark without Leuven’s city mark and date code please show. Put your money were your mouth is and show us some images.
If not like we say in Dutch; kun je wachten tot je een ons weegt.
Kind regards,
Oel


How do you mean show a little gratitude? I thank anyone/everyone every time I get information on items, as you can see in any of my posts. I do think that its nice for searching for information, but its a fact that its still a mistery right? (personally I search for the fun of it)
Second I didnt know I came to justice or that you where not familiar with the other keys of Leuven, it was just to wonder if it could be one of the others as an open thought.
Also I dont know who Theodrich is, so I put it like this so you know I assume "Theodrich" is someone from this forum and not a website or someone I should contact outside this forum.
Here are the photos:

Image
Image
Image
Image

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:24 pm
by oel
Those marks for Leuven we all can find on the internet and to my knowledge those various key’s come always in combination with a Leuven’s city mark. In the 18th century Leuven used a date code or a date letter. Please show images of a silver fork or knife with real (hall) marks for Leuven. For Leuven only a few makers’ mark are identified and/or known, no ER mentioned.

Oel.

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:15 pm
by tux
Leuven was only a guess, so it was wrong, just giving imput in trying to explain these riddle markings.
Guess the search continues :)

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:48 pm
by zilverik
Because the end of the key that is to hold has square, I looked at Bremen. In Scheffler's "Goldschmiede Niedersachsens" I could not find a plausible (19e/20e century) "ER". Maybe it's not an "E"?

Regards,

Zilverik

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:20 pm
by tux
zilverik wrote:Because the end of the key that is to hold has square, I looked at Bremen. In Scheffler's "Goldschmiede Niedersachsens" I could not find a plausible (19e/20e century) "ER". Maybe it's not an "E"?

Regards,

Zilverik



Thanks for checking, the mystery continues I guess :)

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:21 pm
by Theoderich
Rees
ref: Scheffler, Goldschmiede Rheinland Westfalens, no 5 #1173, #1172 p.905
probably Eberhard Raiben master? ca.1689 ..

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:35 am
by oel
Hi Theo,

Thanks for your assistance. The knife blades are most likely 20th century replacements.

Oel.

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:53 am
by zilverik
Interesting, but for me ca 1689 doesn't match the form of the handle as well. What is the city Eberhard Raiben worked? Is that key in the city mark?

Regards,

Zilverik

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:03 am
by oel

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:33 am
by zilverik
Hi Oel,

The key fits all right, but what about ca 1689? Nice picture of the towns mark by the way.

Regards,

Zilverik