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Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:34 am
by zilverik
Found him in another book as well. In Carl-Wilhelm Clasen, "Rheinische Silbermarken" , page 213 "nr. 923. Meister ER. Veilleicht Eberhart Raiben, Bueger 1689." The master mark (925/929) looks very much alike. The town mark (928) for 1763-1769 and the warden mark (931) for 1763-1769 look very much the same as well.
The fact that the period of the town + warden marks differ from the period master ER worked puzzels me. And the form of the knife doesn't look as made earlier than 19e century.

Regards,

Zilverik

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:36 am
by agphile
Just for comparison, some English handles:
Image
Strainer, London, 1691
Ladle, London, 1703
Knife, unmarked but probably circa 1700.

May or may not be relevant to solve from elsewhere!

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:37 am
by agphile
Should have added, all this on assumption that the knife blade may be a replacement.

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:41 am
by oel
Hi,

Yes, I believe the blade to be replaced and to me it appears the handle to be a simplified cartridge pattern which could be late 17th early 18th century but indeed also later.


Oel.

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:56 pm
by tux
Yes the blades have been replaced all, I have read: Friodur J.A. Henckels
It comes with the 1900 logo:
Image
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwilling_J._A._Henckels
1951: Introduction of the ice-hardened steel blades under the name Friodur

Theoderich and Zilverik both mention a reference to books, is it by any chance possible to see these pictures?
Even though I have 6 of these knifes and are really bad to read all, maybe I can give it a try to compare?

All thanks for all info/help/suggestions so far

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:55 am
by zilverik
Hi,

These are the marks from Clasen. As you can see the town mark and the warden mark look the same as on the knife. These marks are dated 1763-1769.
Maker mark "ER" is dated about 80 years earlier, according to Clasen. Although the maker mark looks a lot like the maker mark on the knife, there is something not correct because of the difference in time. It could also be that Clasen is wrong with the date of the makers mark.
Unfortunaly Scheffler's book I don't have. Maybe that information gives another idea.

Regards,

Zilverik

Image

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:06 am
by oel
Hi Erik,

Agree with your statement, if we look at the shape of the key-bow, the sharp corners, it could be the town mark of 1695 used perhaps up till?, and warden mark used in the 18th century, around the year 1763-69, if Clasen is correct. The statement made by Clasen: (vielleight) perhaps Eberhard Raiben, citizen 1689, date seen on silver item 1695. It could be perhaps for Raiben Sr and a son Raiben Jr or other relative continued to use the same maker’s mark in the 18th century.


Best,

Oel.

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:24 am
by tux
Looking at the marks my thoughts are: 927 (With top like ER, mark shown is perhaps for smaller items?), 931, and family of ER.
The keyhole is round not oval and the ER have minor differences, especially the left side of the E but clearly in same style which would suggest a later family member indeed.
So something like: Germany, Rees/Kleve 1763-1769 Eberhard Raiben JR

Thanks for the photo.

Re: Unknown markings on knifes, help wanted

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:40 pm
by Theoderich
Eberhard Raiben citizen 1689
we do not know any more
it could be, that he was living and working until ...1740 - why not?

..and we do not know how looks the hallmark from 1700 ... 1760

this image of your knifes will help, to get a better view of this time