German? Marks please help ID please.

[sdc2007]

Any help appreciated. Thanks

[Francais]

It is a little hard to read the marks, it looks like you might have taken the photo from an angle. If you use diffuse light and take it head on it would be better.
From the style it is later 17th century Nurnberg. The silver smith, if it is RR is an oval, is Reinhold Riel master in 1652 d 1686. If you could take a better picture Theo Hecker would like to use your mark on his site.
Maurice

[Hose_dk]

one comment - dont polish, its gold on silver. But that you proberly already had realised.

[Francais]

That brings up a topic I was wondering how to introduce, I would certainly be interested in the Danish, and moreover European point of view.
One of the advantages of dealing in or collecting silver, is that we can use, what otherwise might end up behind glass in a museum. Over the years I have made it a practice to always "try out" a new beaker, or goblet. I found that while drinking out of a piece you often notice something otherwise ignored, and in a sense it trains the eye. I think this beaker is totally gilt, although these are often just gilt on the lip and foot, and of course the interior. Even the best gilding will eventually be worn off by over-polishing, but certainly it takes a long time, as there is almost always some remaining even after 300 years. And certainly the silver part of a partially gilt piece is meant to be polished. I should point out that while almost totally French I drink beer like and American, and wine like a Frenchman. I usually drink out of one or another beaker which is gilded. The outside usually stays relatively oxidation free, but oddly the gilded inside darkens. I have noticed this on all gilded beakers. After a while I have a choice of drinking out of a very dark beaker, or brightening up the gilding. Usually I just rinse out the cup a bit with warm water and ammonia. I don't THINK this hurts the gilding, at least I haven't notice any wear. But I would say the odd coating does continue to build up, and eventually perhaps once every several months of so, I use a little silver polish to brighten up the gilding and remove the deposit. I should add, that when I finish a drink I always rinse out the beaker with water. I know a museum curator would have a heart attack, but I don't care, I like to use silver I own. I could comment on what some museums have done to silver is far worse. Finally when I go to bed at night I don't drink out of a gilded beaker. I keep all silver French beaker with water in it, as I understand that silver has a biocidal quality. So while I don't recommend this to the owner, if I owned the beaker, even if I were planning on selling it, I would give it a light polishing, especially on the highlights, being sure to leave any oxidation in crevices. Am I wrong?
Maurice

[Zolotnik]

Hi Francais -

maybe I can solve your problem with the gilded interior of beakers, spoon bowls, snuffboxes, ciarette cases etc. - in short every gilded surface. To polish it with some silverpolish is dangerous because you polish the gold away sooner or later. Over the last 20 years I found a very useful solution - tile cleaner. Tile cleaner (used to clean glass doors from shower cabins or tiles of lime residues) contains a mild fruitacid which makes your gold shine without harm (gold is acid proof - we all know that). The result is facinating - and being a spray or liquid it reaches every hidden corner - with some cotton or a soft toothbrush you have the best results.

Regards
Zolotnik

[Theoderich]

an other Reinhold Riehl beaker

[Francais]

Zolotnik. Would lemon juice work as well, something about using tile cleaner bothers me a bit. Although if lemon juice doesn't work I am willing to try it.
Theo your site doesn't have a clear picture of his oval mark, which is odd since there is plenty of his work out there. Rosenberg shows the oval mark and has over two pages of his known works.
Maurice

[Theoderich]

Yes Maurice - a better image of the oval makersmark would be helpful

[sdc2007]

(admin edit - see Posting Requirements )

Thanks

[Zolotnik]

Hi Maurice -

Zolotnik. Would lemon juice work as well, something about using tile cleaner bothers me a bit. Although if lemon juice doesn't work I am willing to try it.

Learning by doing! Try whatever you think is working - but tile cleaner is the best. I do not like fruit juice on silver - I hate this black, laborious to clean stains and edges we all know from neglected salvers and beakers.

Regards
Zolotnik

[Francais]

I would hope that sdc2007 will supply us and Theo a good photo of the marks, so we can help others in the future.
Maurice

[sdc2007]

Update: Better photo of marks

[Francais]

Much better, and the attribution is correct.
Maurice

[sdc2007]

I do give Theoderich permission to use the images I posted on his website. Thanks Steve