Tankard Hanau?

[dik]

Please I have this subject.
What can you say? Is it old or new made?
I see coins dated 1636-1821 years.

[oel]

Hi welcome to the forum,

Silver coin inset tankard, to me the coins do not look real and more like molded impressions, could be a modern (silver plated) replica with pseudo marks in the Hanau style.
The ‘newer’ genuine steins have older but real coins in silver mounts. I believe the genuine old steins had holes cut in the body and real silver coins soldered in.

Oel.

[dik]

Hi welcome to the forum,

Silver coin inset tankard, to me the coins do not look real and more like molded impressions, could be a modern (silver plated) replica with pseudo marks in the Hanau style.
The ‘newer’ genuine steins have older but real coins in silver mounts. I believe the genuine old steins had holes cut in the body and real silver coins soldered in.

Oel.

Thanks for the quick answer.
What about the inside pictures ? Coins are both sides made. Does it mean sense to make it in replica or not with real coins?

[dik]

some pictures from inside








and faceside

[oel]

Those images are much better and not molded coin impressions but the coins do not look right. More like replica coins die struck and perhaps in China, the poor quality of the work. The pseudo/fake marks, but we are looking at images and my advice should be to consult an expert or a good Auction House for an appraisal.

Oel.

[Hose_dk]

decoration (engraving) respect coint. Therefor it is made with coins. They are not added later.
Youngest coin 1821 gives latest manufacture,
The lid and "the wave" decor seems 19hundreds to me.
My guess would be 1910 1920 using original coins - however now I only see some of the coins. A 17hundred coin used in a 19hundred item should be used - have marks of circulation.
If the coins look new and sharp - ie new fake coins.

[Theoderich]

I am not sure about hanau - but this are Pseudomarks like this

[AG2012]

Hi,
Search for Münzhumpen; hundreds of them made even as late as 1975.
Tremolierstich should be different; a sample of silver was chiseled off and one can see how the hand moved - uneven depth but repeated regularly; they were very skilled doing it. Cannot tell for sure with this magnification but it makes no difference; have seen genuine German silver with Tremolierstich made in 1867.
Genuine thalers can be very expensive, but also relatively cheap if not in nearly mint condition. Cannot tell if genuine because of soldering into the tankard (e.g.casting bubbles and ``sprue`` - piece of metal which hardened in the mold's fill hole).
Very popular silver items (coined beer steins) and often honestly marked with 900 and ``Halbmond und Krone`` There are many Austrian coins here; it does not contradict Hanau, though. German thalers are more expensive than Austrian.On the other hand,why not made in Austria?
In short, if the latest coin is 1821 then you can choose any time after that year and it cannot be old Nürnberg. Nevertheless, it is well embossed and nice. Münzhumpen and not easy to make; one cannot hard solder coin by coin — they were fixed in place, and then the whole tankard heated with solder alloy applied. At least I found it very difficult to solder two pieces of silver if one was much smaller — uneven heating.
Enjoy your Münzhumpen.

[dik]

Thanks a lot . Some more pictures

[dik]

[dik]

[dik]

If in URL change 'large' into 'xlarge' you will see bigger pictures

[dik]

Tremolierstich should be different; a sample of silver was chiseled off and one can see how the hand moved - uneven depth but repeated regularly; they were very skilled doing it. Cannot tell for sure with this magnification but it makes no difference; have seen genuine German silver with Tremolierstich made in 1867.

Trying to do my best. ))

[Hose_dk]

I cannot see whether coins are original or copy.
An old coin should be struck a new one copy could be cast.

Around 1900 and 30-40 years later a lot of silver was made (in denmark) using old coins. The coins that today would be worth more per piece than the hole item.
Will be fun to read whether other can tell if old coins.

[oel]

Hi All,

Plenty of good feedback but some of us may have some little doubts.
Herewith a link to a site of a stein collector ‘Steve on Steins’
Worthwhile reading and not without some humor;
http://www.steveonsteins.com/in-the-near-future-2-1-3

Best,

Oel.

[AG2012]

Two genuine ``Tremolierstich`` pictures.
Please, have in mind the purpose was to take the sample of silver for testing.One stroke up, one stroke down with the chisel; clear grooves made, hand was not trembling making horizontal lines within the grooves. Do not take it for granted what I say, but I am sure only with clean, deep grooves. Otherwise it is just a décor with ``old marks``.
As for the coins; Maximilian I Joseph of Bavaria, king of Bavaria (as Maximilian I) from 1806 to 1825. Meaning it cannot be even XVIII century.
As Hose_dk suggested, an expert in numismatics might tell if the coins are genuine (better for the overall value of the Humpen) but they are so distorted, polished and the edges soldered it would not be an easy task to search one by one for clear signs of casting.