some ideas about this spoon?

[R ingo]

Hello,
I would be glad about some ideas about this spoon and its decoration (some people here have seen this mark before and I know, that it is a problematical mark).

The eagle is perhaps the eagle of the March of Brandenburg and there is some evidence that the spoon was made in the Altmark-region (formerly the western part of the Margraviate of Brandenburg).

Interesting for me is the classicistic symmetrical tulip-ornament.
Probably the distribution area of this tulip-ornament can help to localize the region, were the spoon was made (for instance W. Scheffler mentioned tulip-decorated spoons in Lüneburg but without image.
Thats why I would be glad about some information about the distribution of this ornament.)

Kind regards,
Ringo

[R ingo]

Hello,
I would had never expected, that this ornament is so rarely, that no one has seen it before.

be that as it may, I just found a more or less similar presentation of this ornament from the the eighties on a Magdeburg spoon, decorated in "Louis-seize" stil.



Up to now it seems, that Seehausen in the Altmark is the most probably candidate.


F.W.A. Bratring ("Statistisch-topographische Beschreibung der gesammten Mark Brandenburg" from 1804, Bd.I, S. 304) mentioned 1800 2 Goldsmiths in Seehausen. One of them is Tile Schmidt (Scheffler 1980, S. 385), the other, probably this one, is still unknown.

Kind regards,
Ringo

[Bahner]

Hello, engravings like these are the work of an individual goldsmith/silversmith or engraver. They might or might not tell something about a regional style. Wheter this is a tulip or not and whether this tell us anything is - I believe - a matter of discussion. The first is probabaly a wedding spoon, the flower (not a tulip, I think) may simply be a decoration that came to the mind of the engraver or a hint at a name of one of the families or a hint at their profession. We can only guess - not much to be learned from this, I'm afraid. Best wishes, Bahner

[R ingo]

Hello Mr. Bahner,
I thank You verry much.
I know, that engravings are the work of an individual goldsmith/silversmith or engravers. But often there is a regional tradition, or the engravers fulfill the traditionally wishes of the consumer (the frisian vine leaf ornament is a good example of a regional ornamen).
May be, that in this case it is not so. But to find out this, I have asked for examples. I am interested to see, if it is possibe to bordering or localize the origin of the spoon with the help of this decoration, or not.

I hope, that in consideration of the combination of pattern, ornament and mark it should be possibel to bordering the produktion aera of this spoon.
Furthermore the combination of symmetrical floral ornaments with hanoverian pattern about 1800 I only know from northern Germany.

Summing up, on the basis of pattern, ornament and eagle-mark I would expect the origin in a provincial area of the Margraviate of Brandenburg, near to northwestern Germany with its up to the 19th century reaching tradition of floral engravings.

Kind regards,
Ringo

[Solpar]

Dear Ringo,

a similar spoon appears to be im my collection (dated 1811).
It could possibly be Werben (Elbe), but I have no proof. Some time ago I tried to get information from there, but never received an answer.

Regards,
Solpar

http://besteckstube.de/D--032-3.JPG
http://besteckstube.de/D--032-4.JPG

(admin photo edit - images too large - link only - see Posting Requirements )

[R ingo]

Dear Solpar,
thank You very much. I also have tried to get some informations from Werben and from the local historical associations (Heimatverein) Seehausen, but I also never got an answer.

Interestingly all this spoons (from 1811 to 1817) have the same sign in front of the date (probably a "z" for "zum"). I have never seen this before.
Probably there is a region, where this was common.

Furthermore I have never seen such kind of marks and spoons in the second decade of the 19th century. It seems to me, that the origin area is very conservativ, or the dating was made later.

Kind regards,
Ringo

[Theoderich]

OK there is an other mark of this master


it is master in Seehausen
Joachim Martin Trittel
born ca. 1743
oo 27.7.1777