Unidentified Marks on Spoons, probably Hamburg

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
Joerg
contributor
Posts: 409
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:41 am
Location: Switzerland

Unidentified Marks on Spoons, probably Hamburg

Postby Joerg » Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:21 pm

Dear Forum Members

can you help me identify these spoons? I got a set of six. 5 of them are hallmarked with the makers? mark CIB. One is marked with the mark IH. They all have the same pattern, weight and the same city? mark, probably from Hamburg or Altona.
Any help is welcome.

Thank you

Jörg

Image

Image

These Hallmarks are on 5 spoons


Image

The Hallmark on one spoon.


Image

Image

Theoderich
contributor
Posts: 1690
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:54 am

Re: Unidentified Marks on Spoons, probably Hamburg

Postby Theoderich » Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:50 pm

1) BZ: Hamburg ~1790 (Scheffler #1076)
Caspar Jacb Bra(h)mfeld (*6.1.1749; master 20.9.1785; +3.3.1814)
W.Scheffler,Goldschmiede Niedersachsens, page 607, Nr.553 #1108

2) BZ: Hamburg-Altona? (ref. Stierling #108) or Hamburg (ref. Scheffler #1079) ~1800
Johann Hues (*7.8.1732 in Wilster, master 26.4.1768, +14.2.1821
W.Scheffler,Goldschmiede Niedersachsens, page 592, Nr.493 #1080

Joerg
contributor
Posts: 409
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:41 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: Unidentified Marks on Spoons, probably Hamburg

Postby Joerg » Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:58 pm

Thank you Theoderich

I was looking forward to your profound reply. Here it is!

I did not expect the spoons to be that old, what a nice surprise.



Jörg

silverport
contributor
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Unidentified Marks on Spoons, probably Hamburg

Postby silverport » Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:00 pm

Hamburg: [486] Johann Huess and [516] Caspar Jacob Brahmfeld

Hello Joerg


Often Altona or Hamburg Assay Marks are interpreted wrong — to prevent this, it’s necessary to look also on the identity of the maker’s marks.

Your spoon with the »IH« mark in a rectangular cartouche with slightly rounded corners was in this case a little help. Because the »Hamburg« mark is struck so bad, that it could maybe »Altona« as well.

»Hamburg« mark could therefore be interpreted only:

Maybe nr. 70, period letter D, Assayer nr. 402 = August Conradt Kohlmess, period: 22 Nov. 1760-19 June 1784.

Maybe nr. 73, period letter G, Assayer nr. 414 = Caspar Adam Fritze, period: 11 Sept. 1769-before 12 May 1776.

Master mark »IH« stand for [486] Johann Hues: Johann Hues takes over on 26 April 1768 the master workshop of [401] Michael Johann Krueg; on 21 June 1802 it’s changed to his Son [550] Christopher Bernhard Hues.

Johan Hues was born on 7 August 1732 in Wilster, marries there on 22 July 1762 Abel {maybe: Abigail?} Hörnerman, daughter of the Wilster Goldsmith Johan Hörnerman (see: Stierling, 1955, p. 351). On 24 July 1767 gets J. Hues Hamburg citizenship. He is Gold-worker and Silver-worker. 1766 starts in Hues workshop the apprenticeship of his Son Christopher Bernhard Hues. 1786 starts in Hues workshop the apprenticeship of his Son Thomas Heinrich Hues; but he changes a year later, in 1787 to the workshop of [514] Johann Heinrich Zell. Already from 1791 on the workshop is named »Johan Hues & Son«; the address is “Alter Steinweg 36” (in 1793Großer Burstah 36”). During the French occupation (1811-1814) is J. Hues, always be living in “Alter Steinweg 36” is registered to be »Assayer« in the Hamburg Mint, “responsible for the warranty of Gold wares and Silver wares". Johan Hues dies in Hamburg on 14 Feb. 1821.

Your other spoons with the »C.J.B« {sorry, the systen enables not correct pellets} mark in a rectangular cartouche are made in the workshop of [516] Caspar Jacob Brahmfeld.

The »Hamburg« mark therefore could be interpreted as:

Nr. 75, period letter J, Assayer nr. 449 = Christoph Andreas Blanck, period: 12 May 1776-12 Nov. 1793.

Master mark »C.J.B« as already mentioned, stand for [516] Caspar Jacob Brahmfeld: Caspar Jacob Brahmfeld takes over on 20 Sept. 1785 the master workshop of his father and his master [426] Hinrich Brahmfeld; on 24 May 1816 it’s changed to his Son [568] Johannes Friedrich Brahmfeld.

Caspar Jacob Brahmfeld was born on 6 January 1749 in Hamburg, and is in his father’s workshop apprentice from 1763-1768. On 9 Sept. 1785 gets C. J. Brahmfeld Hamburg citizenship. [467] Johann Daniel Maull is there fore the warrant. C. J. Brahmfeld is Gold-worker and Silver-worker. On 13 June 1787 C. J. Brahmfeld marries Anna Elisabeth Kern. 1804 starts in his workshop the apprenticeship of his Son Johann Friedrich Brahmfeld. In 1804 and in 1809 for reason of illness, C. J. Brahmfeld couldn’t be in official events; and was represented there by Johann Daniel Maull. When Caspar Jacob Brahmfeld has die in Hamburg isn’t mentioned.

Source: Schliemann, »Die Goldschmiede Hamburgs«, Hamburg 1985; ISBN 3-88771-005-3.
Town marks: vol. 2, p. 12.
Master’s marks »IH«: vol. 2, p. 422.
Master’s marks »C.J.B«: vol. 2, p. 446.

Kind regards silverport

Joerg
contributor
Posts: 409
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:41 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: Unidentified Marks on Spoons, probably Hamburg

Postby Joerg » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:26 am

Silverport:
Thank you for all this detailed information!

Theoderich:
You are surprisingly fast! The marks are already on your "Silberpunzen" Page...


All the best

Jörg


Return to “German Silver”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests