Pierced Silver or silver plated bowl with romantic scene

[Tigerchips]

Hi, i thought this 15 inch bowl was silver plated but now i'm not sure since i found a mark on it. It has what looks like an 800 mark maybe? It's impressed in the middle bit on the front. There's a mark next to it on the right but it's too faint for me to make out. I would also like to know how old it might be and any other information...

http://i40.tinypic.com/qn0h6q.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/334n49i.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/9s5nph.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/2dhwgft.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/2d2heds.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2uf59uo.jpg

I think it needs a clean!

Thanks, Tony

[silverport]

Hello Tony

You report: »There's a mark next to it on the right but it's too faint for me to make out.« But there is maybe on upper right side of that faint mark, where the “strokes of grass” end, another tiny mark as well? It would be necessary to get knowledge too, if that is also a mark or only texture of surface?

From you observed »800« mark and faint “maker’s mark” (?) are so imprecise, that it looks like, item and both from you observed marks are sand cast at once only — and not struck later, as usual.

If your item would be a German product, then it is from 1888 or younger, maybe much younger. Reason: In Germany, Silver ware had to be from 1 January 1888 on a minimum fineness of 800/1,000; otherwise fineness wouldn’t be struck. Look here, for more knowledge of details: http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_marks.html

Motive of your fruit basket is an interpretation of in Rococo period idealized shepherd’s lifestyle — in this case maybe suggested from a painting of François Boucher or Jean-Honoré Fragonard, in relief interpreted.

The German scapegoat for sandcast products is nearly always »Hanau« - but here is shown one "maker's mark" only.

Info on »Hanau« look here:http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_hanau.html
and here: http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_hanau_marks_01.html

It could be that by incidence only the producer could be identified.

Kind regards silverport

[Tigerchips]

Hello Tony

You report: »There's a mark next to it on the right but it's too faint for me to make out.« But there is maybe on upper right side of that faint mark, where the “strokes of grass” end, another tiny mark as well? It would be necessary to get knowledge too, if that is also a mark or only texture of surface?

Yes, that's part of the grass i think.

From you observed »800« mark and faint “maker’s mark” (?) are so imprecise, that it looks like, item and both from you observed marks are sand cast at once only — and not struck later, as usual.

I'm not sure what you mean but the marks both show clear bumps on the reverse if that helps at all?

If your item would be a German product, then it is from 1888 or younger, maybe much younger. Reason: In Germany, Silver ware had to be from 1 January 1888 on a minimum fineness of 800/1,000; otherwise fineness wouldn’t be struck. Look here, for more knowledge of details: http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_marks.html

Motive of your fruit basket is an interpretation of in Rococo period idealized shepherd’s lifestyle — in this case maybe suggested from a painting of François Boucher or Jean-Honoré Fragonard, in relief interpreted.

The German scapegoat for sandcast products is nearly always »Hanau« - but here is shown one "maker's mark" only.

Info on »Hanau« look here:http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_hanau.html
and here: http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_hanau_marks_01.html

It could be that by incidence only the producer could be identified.

Kind regards silverport

Thank you, I will look into that, cheers.

[silverport]

Hello

Thank you for the additional Photo of mark’s back = anvil side.

These signs of anvil surface make it sure that the fruit basket is sand cast — and piercing was already sand cast too, be refined manually by use of saw and file.

Marks of fineness (800) and “maker’s mark” were already worn out — so they couldn’t overstrike sufficient the surface texture, to make punches ideal visible.

To make such a kind of item in series — next to cast production — exist also the possibility to make sand cast iron dies, or in steel engraved ones. But that are more expensive ways.

For sand cast production in series needs a master model — in this case also already sand cast. And to get this master model, an in brass by conventual’s techniques chased original was made.

So every single item in series is in little details different to each other.

I couldn’t state that your fruit basket is for sure made in Hanau — but there they’ve a huge knowledge of sand cast production in Silver. I’m wondering — for a Hanau item — that there are only these two marks, and not a lot of only impressive pseudo marks.

I suggest to you, request Hanau museum, to give you possible some basic or detailed information’s. Good luck.

Hanau: http://www.hanau.de/kultur/museen/dgh/index.html (General information index - in German only)

Goldsmith Society; who is maybe the museum’s sponsor ?: http://www.gfg-hanau.de/

e-mail: gfg-hanau@t-online.de

If possible let us know the research results. Thank you!

Kind regards silverport