Help identifing this little box.

[Nigelmck]

I bleive this box entered England After 1867 as it has the oval with F in centre but I don't know where it comes form of how to actually date it. I am very new to identifing the marks. I see the crown but it has what appears to be the a french Fluerdle under neath there is the Paasant lion Letter Q in a sheild on what would appear to be the second row of marks. On the first row is where I am getting throwen off the crown with marks underneath the next symbol looks like a bird sort of the the letter n and the makers mark BM if this item came into london then I think I know the maker but other wise I am lost. link 6275 copy goes to hall maks photos


http://g.imagehost.org/view/0184/IMGP6275_copy
http://g.imagehost.org/view/0448/IMGP6283_copy
http://g.imagehost.org/t/0240/IMGP6279.jpg

I appoligize for the links I tried to get the hallmarks photo to show but it keeps going oversized. I realize the other photos are to large for here still learning.

[2209patrick]

Hello and welcome.

Those are Hanau Germany marks with British import marks.
I think the Q is a Chester date mark for 1899.
Check out Neresheimer for the Hanau marks and Berthold Muller for the British import marks here:
http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_hanau_marks_01.html

Pat.

[Nigelmck]

thanks for replying so quickly I had looked at germany before but did not think it was. so this is a copy of something much older is that what you think?

Nigel

[2209patrick]

You're welcome. Glad I could help.

Can't say this is a copy of a particular piece.
Some might say it is a copy of an older style.
Here is a good article on Hanau silver that might answer some of your questions.
http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_hanau.html

Pat.

[Nigelmck]

thanks Pat for all the info and links
nigel

[Nigelmck]

I have I think narrowed this down so it would appear this mas made By Georg Roth imported into England my Muller via Chester in 1899 looking at shield shape and Letter Q so my final question is for the last two symbols the one that looks kind of like a bird flying is this purity mark ? the stilized letter n maybe would this be the date it was made? ps how the heck did you manage to get my picture to post. Thank you Thank you very much for you help Pat.

[admin]

Hi Nigel,
Interestingly, it is not so cut and dried. The crowned "fleur de lys"(s552) is a match for Roth, but the two marks to its right somewhat contradict this. The first to right (double leaf) is not catalogued in Scheffler (unless it is s508, which is not clear in my copy) and I have seen it before, but only stamped alongside Neresheimer marks. The second to the right is also not catalogued in Scheffler, but is very similar to Neresheimer's trademark, only differing in the shield shape.
Who made it is still up in the air and I will be adding your marks to the "Trade & Pseudo-Mark Crossover" section of the page.
So far, the common denominator in all of the crossover examples is Georg Roth. If anyone has other examples of mark crossover, we'd love to see them.

Regards, Tom

[Nigelmck]

Yes you are right this is not as cut and dry but it has caught my attention enough that I have not worked for about 2 weeks just look and trying to identify stuff mostly silver british and silver plate ( I will have to get back to work soon) but it has been just amazing to read the information you folks have at this site. the common tread is Roth! my mother thinks they came from her father or mother no hard facts on that unfortunately. except he would have been born in 1899 I think have to check.

[admin]

Hi Nigel,
Sounds like you should get some rest and go back to work. We'll be here for many years to come, so you'll have plenty of time to peruse what we have to offer at a leisurely pace. It is way too much info to take in a short period of time.
Best regards,
Tom

[Nigelmck]

yes your right but it is exciting

[admin]

I couldn't agree more!