Help with origin of nice milk jug

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Ubaranda
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Help with origin of nice milk jug

Postby Ubaranda » Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:27 am

Hello!

Recently I bought very nice antique milk jug and would like to find out its origin. This is silver (checked by jeweler) but there are no hallmarks. There are only the maker's mark (IHL or JHL) and an inconspicuous dedicatory inscription in German: “Aus Liebe von Johann Bauser 1848”.

I will be grateful for any help.

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silverfan
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Location: munich

Re: Help with origin of nice milk jug

Postby silverfan » Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:46 am

Most probably JHL for Johann Hinrich Luedemann working in Elmshorn mid 19th century.
Regards silverfan

Ubaranda
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Re: Help with origin of nice milk jug

Postby Ubaranda » Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:30 pm

Hi silverfan!
Thanks for the quick response!
I've seen the Luedemann's marks - unfortunately they don't look like the mark on the milk jug.
Regards.

Theoderich
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Re: Help with origin of nice milk jug

Postby Theoderich » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:07 pm

silverfan wrote:Most probably JHL for Johann Hinrich Luedemann working in Elmshorn mid 19th century.
Regards silverfan


I think he is it.

Ubaranda
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Re: Help with origin of nice milk jug

Postby Ubaranda » Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:27 pm

Hi Theoderich!
Thank you for your opinion! One more question: for what reasons are there no fineness and city marks?
Regards.

Theoderich
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Re: Help with origin of nice milk jug

Postby Theoderich » Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:33 pm

Ubaranda wrote:Hi Theoderich!
Thank you for your opinion! One more question: for what reasons are there no fineness and city marks?
Regards.


Germany was not a state in this time, but there were many states with many different rules.
In this region (Elmshorn, Kiel ...) you find a fineness very seldom in this time.

Ubaranda
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Re: Help with origin of nice milk jug

Postby Ubaranda » Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:35 am

It's clear. Can we assume that the default fineness is 12 lots?

AG2012
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Re: Help with origin of nice milk jug

Postby AG2012 » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:24 pm

Hi,
Generally speaking, our perception and undertsanding of life and working conditions in 18th and 19th century (let alone earlier centuries) is completely wrong and idealistic.
There are surviving log books of major and minor silversmiths` guilds; one such log book is kept in a museum in Budapest. It covers a period of several decades of activity of a minor guild in Austria – Hungary (end 18th century to Biedermeier period).Although one can expcect minor differences, it is reasonable to assume the practice elswhere in German speaking areas of central Europe was, more or less, very similar.
What can we learn from the log book ?
1. It was a minor guild of 5 silversmiths who had to join another guild of candle makers because common guild (with candle makers) provided better chances for prosperity.
2. Their meetings were irregular and several silvermiths were always absent; decisions were difficult to be agreed upon and let alone enforced.
3. Town punch was kept with one silvermith and was not readily available to be used by other silvermiths.
4.New silvermiths required admission to township, and after completed apprenticeship the canditate presented a piece of silver or jewelry to guild members for evaluation (kind of exam). They searched for mistakes and for every mistake discovered, the master who guaranteed for the candidate was fined; the money was kept in guild treasury.
5. Poorly struck maker`s marks were fined; meaning, the maker`s mark was more important than town mark.
6. Town authorities classified silvermiths ( Aurifabri) from grade 1 (lowest) to 5 (highst), so properly marked silver with maker`s mark was very important; it guaranteed the status of a silversmiths.
In conclusion, from our perspective everything in regard of marking silver is expected to be immaculate, perfect and legal. In reality, it was far from that; in spite of harsh legislation, if our standards were implemented, most of European population would be serving prison sentences.

Ubaranda
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Re: Help with origin of nice milk jug

Postby Ubaranda » Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:44 pm

Hi AG2012!
Many thanks for the interesting information!
Regards.


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