13 Loth Snuff box

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
JanGroen
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13 Loth Snuff box

Postby JanGroen » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:45 pm

Good evening

I have posted this before but the pictures got lost. I have this Austrain/German snuff box marked AW and 13. It bares a dukes crown with an unknown coat of arms. I am trying to figure out the age of the item aswell as the maker.

Any help will be welcome
Jannie
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silverfan
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Location: munich

Re: 13 Loth Snuff box

Postby silverfan » Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:18 pm

It is not the crown of a duke but of a count (Graf). Nine pearls.
For the maker AW let's wait for Theoderich.

JanGroen
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Re: 13 Loth Snuff box

Postby JanGroen » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:14 am

silverfan wrote:It is not the crown of a duke but of a count (Graf). Nine pearls.
For the maker AW let's wait for Theoderich.

Thank you, yes it should be count. I wonder if there would be any records of German/Austrain counts somewhere?

Jannie

AG2012
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Re: 13 Loth Snuff box

Postby AG2012 » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:37 am

Hi,
Try here:
https://www.heraldik-wiki.de/wiki/Liste ... %E2%80%93M
The first page ends with letter M, then click for the next page:
Alphabetische Liste N bis Z in blue letters (N to Z).
Coat of arms (Wappen) are depicted on the right side.

Hoping you will get lucky; it is probably combined coat of arms by marriage.
(The list is about nobility in German speaking countries, meaning Austria, too).
Search and stay safe.

Regards

JanGroen
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Re: 13 Loth Snuff box

Postby JanGroen » Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:41 pm

AG2012 wrote:Hi,
Try here:
https://www.heraldik-wiki.de/wiki/Liste ... %E2%80%93M
The first page ends with letter M, then click for the next page:
Alphabetische Liste N bis Z in blue letters (N to Z).
Coat of arms (Wappen) are depicted on the right side.

Hoping you will get lucky; it is probably combined coat of arms by marriage.
(The list is about nobility in German speaking countries, meaning Austria, too).
Search and stay safe.

Regards


Thank you very much. It was painfull, but went through it twice. It is the
Normann - Ehrenfels coats of arms. What I can see on internet is it is from Croatia and Slavonia or Mecklenburg, Germany.

Jannie

JanGroen
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Re: 13 Loth Snuff box

Postby JanGroen » Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:44 pm


JanGroen
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Posts: 225
Joined: Sun May 24, 2015 2:53 pm

Re: 13 Loth Snuff box

Postby JanGroen » Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:31 pm

So I did some more digging. This box could have belong to Philipp Christian von Normann-Ehrenfels. He was made a count in 1806.
He died in 1817...can this box be that old?

More info about him:
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philipp ... -Ehrenfels

Jannie

AG2012
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Re: 13 Loth Snuff box

Postby AG2012 » Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:46 pm

The Normann family extended their coat of arms next to the count's arms with the coat of arms of the extinct Ehrenfelser family, in blue three oblique left bars next to each other, the two outer ones red, the middle gold.
The description fits perfectly the hatching of right arms on the box. (I thought it was added by marriage).
It was a big family, therefore difficult to attribute the box to any particular member.
Regards

JanGroen
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Re: 13 Loth Snuff box

Postby JanGroen » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:53 pm

AG2012 wrote:The Normann family extended their coat of arms next to the count's arms with the coat of arms of the extinct Ehrenfelser family, in blue three oblique left bars next to each other, the two outer ones red, the middle gold.
The description fits perfectly the hatching of right arms on the box. (I thought it was added by marriage).
It was a big family, therefore difficult to attribute the box to any particular member.
Regards

I don't think that the crown above the coat of arms may be used by members that are not the Graaf/Count, but I will need to do some more reading.

Jannie

AG2012
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Re: 13 Loth Snuff box

Postby AG2012 » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:15 pm

Open the page and scroll down to Notable family members:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normann_(Adelsgeschlecht)
Bekannte Familienmitglieder
Every member of the noble family was entitled to use coat of arms, not only the eldest son (unlike throne inheritance). Besides, it was not well legislated as expected, and therefore plethora of nobility (thousands of families across the continent).
Regards


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