Baroque 17th Century German Herm Spoon?

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
legrandmogol
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Posts: 417
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:22 pm

Baroque 17th Century German Herm Spoon?

Postby legrandmogol » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:12 am

This is a fun spoon I recently acquired. It is marked twice with what looks like either NE or HE or possibly EN, EH, or less likkely BN or BH inside of square frame. It also has a French swan import mark garunteeing the spoon is at least 800 silver. There is a repair on the bowl. It is engraved on the back with the name 'Zacharias Lohe'. It measures about 7.4" long and is decorated with grotesque faces throughout. Any information would be appreciated though I know it's a long shot.
I lean towards germany because in the book "From Gothic to Art Deco Cutlery the J. Hollander Collection" page 38 there is a very similar fork described as German early 17th century.

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Bahner
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Posts: 1266
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:34 am
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: Baroque 17th Century German Herm Spoon?

Postby Bahner » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:42 am

Hello, am I right in suspecting that You suspect a more recent Hanau-like reproduction rather than a genuine old piece ? Regards, Bahner

legrandmogol
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Posts: 417
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:22 pm

Re: Baroque 17th Century German Herm Spoon?

Postby legrandmogol » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:01 am

I believe it is old. It has all the wear you would expect on an old spoon especially the scratches on the right-hand underside and curling lip from years of use. I am more or less wondering if anyone knows the mark or its origins. However, if anyone has proof that it is more modern I am open to that as well

AG2012
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Posts: 4158
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Baroque 17th Century German Herm Spoon?

Postby AG2012 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:37 pm

Hi,
I am always suspicious when I see import marks on supposedly museum pieces 350 years old.
Imported to France later than 1893 - by whom ?
A private person who was unaware of the material and the age of the spoon ?
An antique dealer who had his medieval and even earlier Byzantine, Roman or Hellenic artefacts brought to assay office to have them tested ?
In a word, there are no import marks on museum pieces, at least I have not seen them (and I had access to museum collections).

Regards

legrandmogol
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Posts: 417
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:22 pm

Re: Baroque 17th Century German Herm Spoon?

Postby legrandmogol » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:11 pm

The french swan mark is pretty common on older pieces because French dealers and more often French auction houses would have them added. I have a few 18th & 17th-century pieces from different countries with the swan mark that I have no doubts what so ever about their authenticity.


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