M.T. WETZLAR Tray Help (Possibly 830 Silver??)

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
SterlingRookie
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Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:09 pm

M.T. WETZLAR Tray Help (Possibly 830 Silver??)

Postby SterlingRookie » Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:42 pm

Hello all,

I recently acquired this silver toned tray.

https://imgur.com/a/gggKo1l (I do not know how to embed images, if anyone knows how to take them from my desktop and put them here please let me know!)

Now I'm usually pretty good with the usual sterling, british hallmarks, or even 800 silver markings. But this tray is confusing me a bit and was hoping for some insight from you pros!

So the tray is marked "M.T. WETZLAR" "(Mystery shape) (Moon shape?) (Crown?) 830" *FIRST PHOTO*. After some research on M.T. Wetzlar, I have discovered that it is of german origin made by a jewish family from 1875-WWII when the family was forced to sell out and leave for Great Britain.

Now I see that a lot of their pieces are either .800 fine silver (and marked 800) or sterling silver. From my research, I have not been able to locate a single piece by M.T. Wetzlar that was made from 830 silver. And im also seeing that 830 silver is more commonly found in Norway and not Germany.

The piece does have 2 other markings on the opposite of the reverse "2151" & "36ø" *SECOND PHOTO* which I assume are just model references.

SO while I am inclined to think this piece is in fact 830 fine silver, but then there is what I think is an old acid mark on the front of the plate with some green color left behind *THIRD PHOTO*. Isn't that a sign of silver plate? I used silver acid on the reverse to test myself, and it stayed red/brown for a minute, then slowly turned dark blu, then lighten in color over the course of a few minutes.Once wiped away there was no copper color at all *FOURTH PHOTO*.

(admin edit - see Posting Requirements )

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated!

Bahner
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Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: M.T. WETZLAR Tray Help (Possibly 830 Silver??)

Postby Bahner » Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:30 am

Hello, Wetzlar ist just the retailer of this piece, it was actually made by Wilkens from Bremen. See here
https://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_marks_a1884_9.html
for marks used by Wilkens, including one with a 830. The numbers are most likely production numbers. It is true, 830 was and is not very common in Germany, but it was used - among others - by companies from northern Germany that exported a lot to Scandinavian countries. That is all there is to it. Regards, Bahner

AG2012
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Re: M.T. WETZLAR Tray Help (Possibly 830 Silver??)

Postby AG2012 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:59 am

Hi,
Four digit number is NOT a production number (Auftragsnummer) which was used until 1927.It was used in chronological order and therefore could be used for rather precise dating.After 1927 it was used on special custom-made products.
Auftragsnummer reached five digit number already in 1867 when there was no crescent and crown (Reichsstempel).
Four digit number was used after 1927 as a serial number on products produced in series.
The retailer of this tray was the firm of Moses Tobias Wetzlar from Munich ,Maximilianstraße (made their own silver,too,mostly in 0.800 fineness).
The family emigrated to Britain in 1938.
So,the tray can be dated 1927 - 1938.
Regards

AG2012
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Posts: 3947
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am

Re: M.T. WETZLAR Tray Help (Possibly 830 Silver??)

Postby AG2012 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:03 am

P.S.
The numbers refer to the firm of Wilkens & Söhne.


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