English, but where?

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mdhavey
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English, but where?

Postby mdhavey » Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:53 pm

Came across this lovely serving spoon, 9" in length.

Any thoughts on where it was made -- if the mark is even decipherable.

Image

Image

dognose
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Re: English, but where?

Postby dognose » Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:26 pm

Hi,

Not English. That set of marks has now been attributed to Bailey & Co. of Philadelphia.

Trev.

mdhavey
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Re: English, but where?

Postby mdhavey » Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:48 pm

Well, fool me twice... A few years ago these Bailey marks fooled me also.

Thanks for the reminder that forgetfulness comes with advancing age!

dognose
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Re: English, but where?

Postby dognose » Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:22 pm

Image

Image

Image
Bailey & Co. - Philadelphia - 1876

Trev.

mdhavey
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Re: English, but where?

Postby mdhavey » Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:46 pm

I also just learned that the lion/S/shield mark was used beginning in 1855 to denote sterling silver. Previous to that, the eagle/U/shield mark was used beginning around 1850 to denote coin silver.

silverly
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Re: English, but where?

Postby silverly » Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:03 pm

I would expect these marks to be George Sharp as the manufacturer and Bailey & Co as the retailer.

mdhavey
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Re: English, but where?

Postby mdhavey » Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:39 pm

"In the early 1850s, Bailey & Co.'s coin silver pieces (which is marked by an eagle, 'U' and shield) sometimes include other marks - a star and occasionally an elephant. Do these marks indicate an outside supplier or maker (Taylor & Lawrie?) or something internal like a 'journeyman's mark' on British silver. We don't know. From this information, we can infer that the extra lions that appear about 1855 are associated with the sterling standard, not George Sharp."
--Spencer Marks, Ltd.

legrandmogol
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Re: English, but where?

Postby legrandmogol » Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:35 am

The S mark with lion and shield are attributed to George Sharp who was a supplier to Bailey & co. The extra lion in this case is the lion towards the backside center of the bowl (on the drop).

dognose
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Re: English, but where?

Postby dognose » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:44 pm

See: 'Some Bailey & Co. Marks and Their Significance' - D. Albert Soeffing - Silver Magazine - November/December 1995.

Trev.

silverly
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Re: English, but where?

Postby silverly » Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:17 am

Found in Philadelphia and Its Manufactures, A Hand-book 1858.Image

silverly
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Re: English, but where?

Postby silverly » Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:35 am

silverly wrote:I would expect these marks to be George Sharp as the manufacturer and Bailey & Co as the retailer.
This post is to correct my last post in this thread.

From the The Presbyterian Historical Almanac and Annual Remembrancer ... Joseph M. Wilson · 1859 pg 6

Image

legrandmogol
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Re: English, but where?

Postby legrandmogol » Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:30 am

This doesn't necessarily mean that the mark is not for George Sharp. He was the companies silver foreman from 1852 to 1862. Before that, they used Taylor and Lawrie who had their own manufacturer's marks. According to Catherine Hollans 2013 book 'Philadelphia Silversmiths,' this mark was George Sharp's mark even if he only used it during his tenure at Bailey's.

silverly
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Re: English, but where?

Postby silverly » Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:44 am

I had the same thought. But me for it's good to see the verified facts from contemporary publications.

mdhavey
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Re: English, but where?

Postby mdhavey » Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:17 pm

All fascinating, especially viewing the original source material (ads). Thanks to all for contributing to this lively discussion.

silverly
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Re: English, but where?

Postby silverly » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:52 am

silverly wrote:Found in Philadelphia and Its Manufactures, A Hand-book 1858.Image


I don't suppose anyone would ever look into this, but so far as I can tell J C Booth (James Curtis Booth) was not the Chief Assayer at the U S Mint in Philadelphia. He was a well respected chemist and the Melter and Refiner at the Philadelphia mint from 1849 until his death in 1888.


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