French Double Saleron No Stamps??

[Timax56]

This item was sold to me as an Early French Silver Double Salt or Saleron. There are two lozenge shaped stamps to the base (one on each of the salts) they are very minute and are totally illegible even under the strongest magnification. There is also no Minerva mark or any other stamp on the whole piece

The only piece that i have found similar to this is an early Obelisk design but this one has full set of marks

[JayT]

Hello
Not sure what your questions are, so I've taken the liberty to make some for you:

Q-Was my double salt made in France?
A- Without a silver standard mark (Minerva head or other), it is impossible to say. There should be several such marks as there are multiple parts to this item. Please examine all parts with a 10X loupe.

Q- Who made my salt dish?
A- If the object is French, then the marks in the lozenge-shaped reserve will be the maker's mark. In my experience, maker's marks are always legible (unless poorly struck) with a 10X loupe.

Q- How old is my salt cellar?
A- Based on style alone, this is an example of Romanticism - the fruiting garlands, putti, and child satyrs - and dates no earlier than mid-eighteenth century. If your dealer told you is is "early," they were pulling your leg.

Good luck in your research!

[JayT]

CORRECTION
Huge typo on date of object. It should read mid-nineteenth century. Must have been my Sunday lack of focus; sorry.
JayT

[Timax56]

Hello
Not sure what your questions are, so I've taken the liberty to make some for you:

Q-Was my double salt made in France?
A- Without a silver standard mark (Minerva head or other), it is impossible to say. There should be several such marks as there are multiple parts to this item. Please examine all parts with a 10X loupe.

Q- Who made my salt dish?
A- If the object is French, then the marks in the lozenge-shaped reserve will be the maker's mark. In my experience, maker's marks are always legible (unless poorly struck) with a 10X loupe.

Q- How old is my salt cellar?
A- Based on style alone, this is an example of Romanticism - the fruiting garlands, putti, and child satyrs - and dates no earlier than mid-eighteenth century. If your dealer told you is is "early," they were pulling your leg.

Good luck in your research!

Many Thanks JayT, you are correct, that is exactly what I wanted answered. I cannot for love nor money find a Standard Mark and i am having trouble with the makers mark. Were these ever copied? If there is no standard mark what would be the possible reason? You say that this cannot be before mid 19th century but the one listed at the bottom of the set of pictures is listed as 1793 in date

[Timax56]

Hello
Not sure what your questions are, so I've taken the liberty to make some for you:

Q-Was my double salt made in France?
A- Without a silver standard mark (Minerva head or other), it is impossible to say. There should be several such marks as there are multiple parts to this item. Please examine all parts with a 10X loupe.

Q- Who made my salt dish?
A- If the object is French, then the marks in the lozenge-shaped reserve will be the maker's mark. In my experience, maker's marks are always legible (unless poorly struck) with a 10X loupe.

Q- How old is my salt cellar?
A- Based on style alone, this is an example of Romanticism - the fruiting garlands, putti, and child satyrs - and dates no earlier than mid-eighteenth century. If your dealer told you is is "early," they were pulling your leg.

Good luck in your research!

Many Thanks JayT, you are correct, that is exactly what I wanted answered. I cannot for love nor money find a Standard Mark and i am having trouble with the makers mark. Were these ever copied? If there is no standard mark what would be the possible reason? You say that this cannot be before mid 19th century but the one listed at the bottom of the set of pictures is listed as 1793 in date

I have found out the makers mark and it is Paillard Freres 1868-1888, 31 Rue Chapon, Paris. P.Fres, Star flanked by Greek cross.

[JayT]

Hello Timax56
Good news that you've found and identified the maker of your salt dish. The silver standard mark should be on the rim of the salt dish holders, as in your second example, or on the base of the holders, or even underneath. I think I see an indentation on the base of the right handed holder that could be a poorly struck Minerva head. Put your loupe to work again, and you may find one!

As for style, the second example is light and graceful in the Louis XVI taste. The putti are actually working, not just for decoration. In the first example the style elements are jumbled together for a heavier feel. It was a good idea to compare the two examples as training for the eye. I hope you have a word with the dealer about his claim for "early."

[Timax56]

Thanks again JayT, I would think that anything Victorian is early (ish)...I can forgive him, he is an old boy with limited eyesight..i struggled to get a good look at the makers mark, having to turn it at a certain angle under a light to be able to identify it...got my 20x and 60x loupe coming tomorrow so should find that Minerva mark..ha ha

[Timax56]

Hello
Not sure what your questions are, so I've taken the liberty to make some for you:

Q-Was my double salt made in France?
A- Without a silver standard mark (Minerva head or other), it is impossible to say. There should be several such marks as there are multiple parts to this item. Please examine all parts with a 10X loupe.

Q- Who made my salt dish?
A- If the object is French, then the marks in the lozenge-shaped reserve will be the maker's mark. In my experience, maker's marks are always legible (unless poorly struck) with a 10X loupe.

Q- How old is my salt cellar?
A- Based on style alone, this is an example of Romanticism - the fruiting garlands, putti, and child satyrs - and dates no earlier than mid-eighteenth century. If your dealer told you is is "early," they were pulling your leg.

Good luck in your research!

Hi JayT, Well i have been all over the piece with an illuminated x 30 Loupe and i cannot find a Minerva stamp anywhere. The spot where you thought that there might be a mark turns out to be nothing more than a dent. Does this Mean that the piece is not silver? Could it be plate? and if so is this common on these pieces, did this company produce both silver and plate versions of this piece.Any information would be greatly appreciated. Many Thanks

Tim