1839 Birmingham Tea Caddy ???

[timeinabottle]

I have this old tea caddy. I'm puzzled by it for several reasons. First I believe this is a Birmingham Sterling Mark. However, look at the fouled anchor, it has the rope which I can't find on any page of the above link or any other link! Next is the writing is so fancy that I can't make out the last symbol, It looks like 1839. Another fact is the lid is heavy and has amongst other items a windmill which is typical of Dutch / Netherlands sterling. Despite the standing lion on the base, the item seems to have a copper undertone as when polishing, they copper really shows at high points. Is this an early electroplated piece still using sterling marks prior to those being banned for EP? Any insight anybody may have would certainly be appreciated before I go nuts!

[AG2012]

Hi and welcome,
The marks look like Gorham’s English style hallmarks. The similar set of marks has been discussed here:
viewtopic.php?t=24014
Regards

[timeinabottle]

Thanks for your input! That was an interesting thread of which I have added to, but....There's a difference, my fouled anchor mark is first, followed by a LH facing lion second, followed by the Gothic G third. An expert there said coin silver Gorham that's pre 1865 for a LH facing lion. My piece is certainly over copper as most edges and many high point through years of polishing have exposed the copper under belly! Still not sure if this would be Gorham or not. Any help anyone??!! Thanks-Scott

[dragonflywink]

Those are not Gorham marks. They're silverplate pseudo-marks, likely American, that show up with several variations, in this case on a circa 1920s 'Dutch Reproduction' tea caddy...

~Cheryl

[silverly]

I questioned these marks myself but didn't know enough to say anything. Good to know information.

[timeinabottle]

Thanks-when I search Dutch Revival I can find similar items all in the time period you mentioned. Mystery solved-thanks!

[dognose]

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

Link to a couple of posts that show images of the factory of Johnson, Hayward & Piper, one of the producers of 'Old Dutch Silver':

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=32952&p=115675&hilit=johnson#p115675

Trev.

[dragonflywink]

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but was under the impression that Johnson, Hayward & Piper were manufacturers of jewelry and other small items, finished in their proprietary 'Dutch Silver' and 'Dutch Gold', don't believe they produced holloware. The heyday for 'Dutch Reproduction' wares in the U.S., most often plated, was right around the 1920s, give or take a few years either way (they start showing up in catalogs in the mid-late teens)...

~Cheryl

[dognose]

Hi Cheryl,

Many thanks for the correction. Once again, thanks to the forum, I've learnt something new.

Trev.

[SirWatkynBassett]

Hello,

The maker was F. & M. Weintraub of New York. The caddy would date to around 1908-9.

Bassett

[dognose]

Thanks to Sir Watkyn's lead, here's a gem of an advertisement from the Gorham Mfg. Co. that shows that Gorham won a restraining order against F. & M. Weintraub in 1909 preventing them using marks that were considered too similar to those used by Gorham:


Gorham Mfg. Company - Providence, R.I. - 1910

This long-running mystery of the identity of those marks is finally over!

Trev.