Caricature Hat Pin info help please

[TheoryofI]

Another puzzling (for me anyway) jewelry item -- I think they're hat pins, and made of sterling but there are no marks I can find, and I have no other information about the maker, place of origin, age, style, etc. Any help (even speculation) will be well appreciated.

Thanks,

Jim

[dognose]

Hi Jim,

They are hair grips, used by ladies when they had their hair up in in the bun fashion. You often find the single pin variety sold as poultry skewers!

Regards Trev.

[TheoryofI]

Hello Trev

Poultry skewers huh... :)}

I'm sure you are right, but hair pins (grips) would have been my second guess, because I thought the pointy ends could have proved painful under some circumstances.

Thanks for steering me in the right direction.

Jim

[admin]

Hi,
Nice granulation work, I'd guess they are of Chinese or southeast Asian origin.
Regards, Tom

[kerangoumar]

Jim - are those marks I see on the back of the pin in the second picture??

[TheoryofI]

Hi,
Nice granulation work, I'd guess they are of Chinese or southeast Asian origin.
Regards, Tom

Hi Tom

I was guessing Central or South American Indian because I keep thinking I've seen artwork or similar symbolic motifs from the region, but without any real conviction about it... now that you point it out, it could well be ~Asian. Can you think of any sources for additional research?

Thanks and regards,

Jim

[TheoryofI]

Jim - are those marks I see on the back of the pin in the second picture??

Hi Holly,

I couldn't see any marks mostly because the soldering work was poorly done and covered so much area -- I'll try again with more magnification and see if anything shows.

Thanks and regards,

Jim

[kerangoumar]

Hello Jim

perhaps it is an artefact - but to me it looks as though there are marks just above the edges of the circle ('X' on left and star? on right???)

my first thought on seeing them was "Yup! Chinese dragons!" so I am with Tom. While there is a lot of evidence of Chinese hair ornaments, one- or two-pronged, I cannot think of a single American culture that used them - off the top o' my head. (none there either; the only thing I would put up there is a fender)

H

[TheoryofI]

Hello Holly

If this is the area you were looking at for marks, I'm pretty sure it was artefacts as you mentioned.

I'm not only out-voted, but out-smarted yet again-- you, Tom and Byron are undoubtedly correct... I concede they are Chinese or SE Asian dragon hair pins. Now if I could find out how old they may be, but without marks that's improbable.

Thanks and regards,

Jim

[TheoryofI]

Trev - not Byron, my bad, sorry Trev

[kerangoumar]

Jim

as Tom pointed out, the granulation is very finely done - so you are probably going to cast your mind back to the last quarter of the 19th C to the first of the 20thC.

an interesting phenomenon: with marks, they are usually tho not always larger when older; with such things as granulation, filigree, engraving, carving etc., it is the reverse - the finer and more delicate the work, the older it usually tho not always is. (the etruscans were absolute masters of such fine goldwork that no one has ever been able to equal them.)

and a side observation - the earlier in the field's time span it is, the greater the variety usually tho not always - this goes equally for small silver items in the Victorian Era and the variety of music played on 'pop' or 'rock' stations and the number of individual utensils in a flatware setting.

interesting, eh? ( added this last word to show that i am in the Great White North now)

Holly

[TheoryofI]

Hi Holly
Sorry for the delay in response -- traveling out of town and away from computer.

Many thanks for the additional insight. This site is a great resource, mostly because members like you take the time to share your knowledge and provide information which would otherwise be difficult to obtain. I thoroughly appreciate it.

Regards,

Jim

[kerangoumar]

thanks, Jim - you might get more information from a museum. I don't really know what city you are near - you might try sending a letter to the chinese department of the Royal Ontario Museum, Avenue Road, Toronto -- you'll have to get the exact address from their site - don't email them, send a photo that can be passed around, that is how it is preferred. The ROM's chinese dept is world-famous; they might be able to place it in time and area.

Good luck

[fiona]

Hello, These are definitely Chinese hair ornaments. It is not unusual for them to be unmarked, and they probably date from the the late 19th century to the early 20th century. Nice to find them in a pair.
Cordially, Fiona