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Catholic Relic in 800 silver reliquary

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:33 pm
by GABatGH
The hallmark is on the rim of a Catholic first class relic, with the back being 23mm in diameter, the front being 35mm (about 1.25inches).

I'm hoping to decipher the hallmark to date the relic.

The hallmark is worn, 3mm wide, and shiny. A 10x loupe, 20x loupe, digital camera and usb camera and we still cannot read it. It *might* read B35-CE or ØE or even Œ.

These are the best pics that I was able to get after an hour, and dozens, of pics.

The three larger images were taken with the 20x loupe held up to the camera lens, the two smaller ones were with a 10x loupe.
Image
Image

Re: Catholic Relic in 800 silver reliquary

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:51 pm
by Traintime
Just to star, here are Italian mark types (look down): https://www.925-1000.com/Fitalian_marks_01.html

Re: Catholic Relic in 800 silver reliquary

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:00 pm
by GABatGH
Traintime wrote:Just to star, here are Italian mark types (look down): https://www.925-1000.com/Fitalian_marks_01.html


Neumann lived in Philadelphia at the time of his death, and had been in the US for decades. Wouldn't that suggest that the case was made in the US?

Re: Catholic Relic in 800 silver reliquary

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:03 pm
by GABatGH
That page also states "silver standards were .800 and .925 marked within an oval cartouche".

The 800 on this piece is not within any shape.

Re: Catholic Relic in 800 silver reliquary

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:14 pm
by Traintime
To me it looks like a Type B mark with the Province as possibly "CE" and a three digit code for the assigned maker (833??). Yes, 800 is not in an oval, but rules are not infallible and hey, it's Italy!! I see no problem in a Catholic organization getting supplies imported from the traditional center of the Catholic world...even if final assembly was in the US. And .800 is not an American standard so it must be imported...raising the question of what was required for government standards (??) to get them here.

Re: Catholic Relic in 800 silver reliquary

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:21 pm
by dognose
Hi,

The marks are typical Italian. 'CE' would not be possible for a 3 digit number in that shape cartouche as the registrations at the Caserta office did not get that high by the time that shape was retired.

The only fit that I can see is Genova (GE), and it must be 133 GE which was registered to: Giancarlo Fava, Via XXV Aprile, Genova in 1967.

Trev.

Re: Catholic Relic in 800 silver reliquary

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:41 pm
by dognose
I should also mention that although the 1968 law changed the punch shape, it was some time before new punches were issued to manufacturers and the item could be as late as 1971 or thereabouts.

It should also be remembered that the Italian system is one of self-regulation, the marks are struck by the manufacturer, not by an assay office and if the manufacturer chooses to use the standard mark without outline, then there's little to prevent them doing so.

Trev.

Re: Catholic Relic in 800 silver reliquary

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:44 pm
by AG2012
Ex Oss. Jo. Neumann is for Saint John Neumann.
St. John Neumann was the fourth bishop of Philadelphia, (from 1852 to 1860). He was the first male canonized saint from the United States. St. John lived from 1811 to 1860 .
The frame is Italian.
Regards

Re: Catholic Relic in 800 silver reliquary

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:42 pm
by GABatGH
AG2012 wrote:Ex Oss. Jo. Neumann is for Saint John Neumann.
St. John Neumann was the fourth bishop of Philadelphia, (from 1852 to 1860). He was the first male canonized saint from the United States. St. John lived from 1811 to 1860 .
The frame is Italian.
Regards


The National Shrine of St. John Neumann is about an hour from my house and I've driven past it innumerable times. One of his biggest contributions was his pioneering of the Catholic school system for the entire United States.

Thanks to whomever moved this thread to the European forum!