Old Locket with compartment - possibly 1785?

[koldie]

Hi everyone,

I've been browsing different hallmark sites for a few days trying to find the right marks and just discovered there is a forum on here!
I'm a self-confessed n00b to identifying hallmarks and it's this one item of jewellery that has got me interested and intrigued.

This is the item - a locket which has a vented compartment - possibly a perfume locket? The hallmark on the inside of the locket is below.

[images are in 3rd post]

The third mark looks to me like a duty mark and the one I think it most closely resembles is King George III / 1785 - based on the five duty marks shown on this site. I've had a look through some lists of silver maker's marks and there are quite a few 'IB's, mainly dating between 1700 and 1850, but none seem to be an exact match and it is difficult to know how much the marks may vary from item to item. Can anyone else help with identifying and dating this locket?
I'm very grateful for your help. Thanks in advance

K

[dognose]

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

How to Add Images

Try http://www.tinypic.com

Trev.

[koldie]

Frustrating... the images are fine when I use the direct link but won't work through bbcode. Thanks for the heads up on tinypic Dognose, here's take #2

Interesting to note also - I had to mirror flip the hallmark image to show them straight as it seems to have been stamped back to front?

[dognose]

Hi,

Your item is a vinaigrette. See: http://www.925-1000.com/silverglossary5.html

Prior to an item being submited for assay it is struck with with the maker's mark, following a successful assay the hallmarks will be applied by the marker at the assay office. There's no real up or down with the application of the hallmarks and often they do not follow which way up the maker struck his mark and this is what appears to have happened with these marks.

As for the maker, your guess is as good as mine, The 'IB' combination is probably the most common found set of initials. Hopefully someone may know of such a maker known to have made vinaigrettes.

Trev.

[koldie]

Thanks for your response again Trev, I see what it is and it's purpose now after looking up vinagrettes - but I wouldn't have got there without your help.

There is an 'IB' which made vinaigrettes on the silver maker's marks list so I'm leaning toward that one at the moment as none of the others include vinaigrettes as items they made (although I know the lists might not be complete).
Can anyone shed some light on the duty mark - if that is what it is? Would a cleared picture be needed? I don't think there is much more detail than shown above however because a lot of it seems to have faded with age

Thanks again

K

[ARGENTUM49]

Have you considered this vinaigrette being a fake? There are several suspicious elements, beside hallmarks (no city mark, no date mark). Vinaigrette is very popular item with the collectors and it pays off to fake them. The worst things are the holes in the plate — look at the back — the edges are too sharp as well as the edges everywhere. There is too much soldering — 18th century pieces are supposed to be hammered from a single sheet of silver over a wooden template, not soldered as the front and back plate of this vinaigrette (as far as I can see in the pics). Besides, having being made of separate parts, it is supposed to have hallmarks on the plate, too. (E.g. hallmarks on handles of teapots because they were not soldered to the teapot but fastened with rivets over ivory or wood to prevent the handle from overheating).
On the other hand, many silversmiths tried to avoid paying duty and hallmarked their products themselves. You must have heard of ``duty dodgers``: they brought a smaller piece to the assay office to pay duty depending on weight, and then soldered already hallmarked piece to a much heavier object. Therefore, the silversmith technique is more important than to rely on hallmarks only. In short, it looks suspicious to me.
I.