English Pocketwatch, 1739, 1779 ?????

[haynau]

Greetings from vienna. Dear forumites, I own an english pocket watch which i date arround 1770 to 1790. I'am not sure abbout the hallmarks.

I see lion passant, London, 1739 or 1779?, RP and an arrow. Is this the broad arrow that indicates property of the army?

thanks in advance

josef

[/img]

[2209patrick]

Hello and welcome.

I'm not sure of your date mark, so here are two possibilities for the RP mark.

Richard Payne entered his incuse RP mark on June 29, 1724.
Richard Palmer I entered his incuse RP mark on June 10, 1769.

Duty taxes were introduced in 1784 with a duty mark.
Watch cases became exempt from duty in 1798.

Pat.

[haynau]

thanks pat for your reply.

is there any possibility to get an exact date for the date mark?

I'am asking because i always thought that ALL british silver made pieces can be dated exactly.

again, the question abbout the arrow. is this the socalled broad arrow?

josef

[2209patrick]

Hi Joseph.

Wish I could help more, but I'm not sure of the date.

You might try a watch forum to determine the age of the movements.
Here's a free watch site that has helped me in the past:
http://www.watchuseek.com/site/forums.htm

Pat.

[dognose]

Hi Josef,

Welcome to the Forum.

Taking in to consideration, the Leopards Head and the Lion Passant, it's 1779 to me.

As for the broad arrow mark, I do not think it is an indication of British government property, it's a little too crude and if it was to be to be a government property mark, I think it would have been struck on the outside of the case, making the ownership obvious. It is more likely to be some kind of inventory mark, relating to the maker, owner or repairer.

Regards Trev.

[thelocksmith]

Hi Josef,

The hallmark is 1779, which is consistent with the features of the watch - porcelain dial with minute markings, solid balance cock etc.

It is a nice piece.

I would suggest that the broad arrow is a journeyman's mark - they are commonly seen on English silver watch cases and even on flatware and hollow ware.

(A journeyman was an artisan who had completed his apprenticeship but had not yet been declared free to work for himself by the appropriate guild. They had therefore to work anonymously for an established craftsman)

Hope this helps,

Andy