Silver pre-revolutionary St. Petersburg ring or fake?

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
wiglaf
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Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:26 am

Silver pre-revolutionary St. Petersburg ring or fake?

Postby wiglaf » Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:21 am

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I would be interested in the forum members' opinion on this piece. My research suggests that the maker is Mathias Henrik Kilpeläinen and the ring was made in St. Petersburg between 1875-1898. There are several odd things about this ring, however:

1) It has no assayer's mark and as far as I can work out (this is affirmed in several places, but not conclusive), a piece of silver or gold had to have a maker's mark, town mark, quality mark and assayer's mark with date. This has all of these apart from the latter. Perhaps somebody can tell me if I'm correct in thinking that the assayer's mark was mandatory?

2) The ring itself seems very worn and dinged, but the hallmarks are relatively fresh.

3) Those squared edges of the ring seem a little rough for something that would have been a seriously luxury item.

4) The very obviously Russian Imperial double-headed eagle seems a bit too good to be true (and I can't find any examples of something similar) and the maker that it seems to be by is known mainly for spoons, lamps, salt cellars etc as far as I can tell. Who would wear something like this I wonder? The maker was not a supplier to the tsarist court (otherwise there would be a two-headed eagle hallmark too).

wiglaf
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:26 am

Re: Silver pre-revolutionary St. Petersburg ring or fake?

Postby wiglaf » Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:23 am

I would also add that it seems odd to me that the hallmarks should be on the outer side of the ring and not inside the ring. Thoughts?

Mart
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:32 pm
Location: Novosibirsk, Koltsovo

Re: Silver pre-revolutionary St. Petersburg ring or fake?

Postby Mart » Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:54 am

I am writing only about the theory, not about the authenticity of this ring.
This type of state stamp could be used in 1882-1898. More often in 1896-1898

wiglaf
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Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:26 am

Re: Silver pre-revolutionary St. Petersburg ring or fake?

Postby wiglaf » Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:03 am

Mart wrote:I am writing only about the theory, not about the authenticity of this ring.
This type of state stamp could be used in 1882-1898. More often in 1896-1898


Thank you for the interesting information about the dates of that style of state stamp, very interesting. Do you have any thoughts on the question of whether an assayer's stamp was always present or whether it was sometimes not used?

Mart
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:32 pm
Location: Novosibirsk, Koltsovo

Re: Silver pre-revolutionary St. Petersburg ring or fake?

Postby Mart » Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:11 am

I wrote specifically about the type of clem without the initials of the probirer.

Mart
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:32 pm
Location: Novosibirsk, Koltsovo

Re: Silver pre-revolutionary St. Petersburg ring or fake?

Postby Mart » Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:15 am

Such a brand can occur separately, or maybe together with the brands with the initials of the probirer

wiglaf
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Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:26 am

Re: Silver pre-revolutionary St. Petersburg ring or fake?

Postby wiglaf » Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:19 am

Mart wrote:Such a brand can occur separately, or maybe together with the brands with the initials of the probirer


So you are saying that the kleimo of the probirer/assayer was not always added?

Mart
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:32 pm
Location: Novosibirsk, Koltsovo

Re: Silver pre-revolutionary St. Petersburg ring or fake?

Postby Mart » Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:49 am

wiglaf wrote:
Mart wrote:Such a brand can occur separately, or maybe together with the brands with the initials of the probirer


So you are saying that the kleimo of the probirer/assayer was not always added?

In Russian. Try to translate if you have a question:
Такой тип клейма (проба/герб города) как на перстне мог применяться самостоятельно с 1882 по 1898 годы, но чаще 1896-1898. Без присутствия клейма с инициалами пробирера.

AG2012
contributor
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Re: Silver pre-revolutionary St. Petersburg ring or fake?

Postby AG2012 » Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:13 pm

Hi,
Unfortunately,it is modern fake.
Google for russian style imperial eagle silver ring.
(Do not expect the exact match,hundreds available in stock).
Rule of thumb: every russian imperial eagle is a fake.
Regards

wiglaf
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:26 am

Re: Silver pre-revolutionary St. Petersburg ring or fake?

Postby wiglaf » Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:14 pm

AG2012 wrote:Hi,
Unfortunately,it is modern fake.
Google for russian style imperial eagle silver ring.
(Do not expect the exact match,hundreds available in stock).
Rule of thumb: every russian imperial eagle is a fake.
Regards


Thanks for your message. I had a feeling that it was probably unlikely to be the real deal. Always interesting to research these things, though!

wiglaf
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:26 am

Re: Silver pre-revolutionary St. Petersburg ring or fake?

Postby wiglaf » Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:17 pm

Mart wrote:
wiglaf wrote:
Mart wrote:Such a brand can occur separately, or maybe together with the brands with the initials of the probirer


So you are saying that the kleimo of the probirer/assayer was not always added?

In Russian. Try to translate if you have a question:
Такой тип клейма (проба/герб города) как на перстне мог применяться самостоятельно с 1882 по 1898 годы, но чаще 1896-1898. Без присутствия клейма с инициалами пробирера.


Спасибо большое за объяснение, Март. На самом деле я по-русски разговариваю :) For the benefit of the non-Russian-speakers, it's really interesting to know that the assayer's mark was not mandatory from 1882-1898 and was most often not used in the period of 1896-1898. I had not been able to find that information anywhere else, so it's much appreciated.

Mart
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:32 pm
Location: Novosibirsk, Koltsovo

Re: Silver pre-revolutionary St. Petersburg ring or fake?

Postby Mart » Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:39 am

Such a stamp could be used, but not very often until 1897. In 1897, some cities received still old stamps with the initials of the probirer (for example, Odessa, Vilna), but they were not used much. In 1897 and 1898, the stamp sample/coat of arms of the city was mainly used. Next, a girl in a kokoshnik.
Good luck!

wiglaf
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:26 am

Re: Silver pre-revolutionary St. Petersburg ring or fake?

Postby wiglaf » Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:55 am

Mart wrote:Such a stamp could be used, but not very often until 1897. In 1897, some cities received still old stamps with the initials of the probirer (for example, Odessa, Vilna), but they were not used much. In 1897 and 1898, the stamp sample/coat of arms of the city was mainly used. Next, a girl in a kokoshnik.
Good luck!


Thank you, Mart!


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