Unger Brooch

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
bonsai
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:00 am

Unger Brooch

Postby bonsai » Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:22 pm

I'm trying to find some info on this brooch I bought. I cant find many examples of this model, only 1 which I'll post next.
Anyway, I was told b/c of the way the vent holes are it's likely a fake?
But since I'd never heard of that I went looking and found tons of other brooches from Unger on the market with vent holes like this....
So I'm unsure what to make of it.

Any thoughts?

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bonsai
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:00 am

Re: Unger Brooch

Postby bonsai » Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:28 pm

Now, I've only found 2 examples of brooches in this model online.

This is NOT MINE, but one that was previously sold from another online seller.
The back is identical, even the mark.

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dognose
Site Admin
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Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:53 pm
Location: England

Re: Unger Brooch

Postby dognose » Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:30 pm

Hi,

For further reading, see: Information Regarding Unger Brothers

Trev.

bonsai
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:00 am

Re: Unger Brooch

Postby bonsai » Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:35 pm

dognose wrote:Hi,

For further reading, see: Information Regarding Unger Brothers

Trev.


forgive me... the history is interesting but I dont see anything related to my question?

AG2012
contributor
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Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Unger Brooch

Postby AG2012 » Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:23 pm

Anyway, I was told b/c of the way the vent holes are it's likely a fake?


I see nothing wrong with vent holes.The brooch is made of two halves;the front is die stamped and soldered to the back, meaning the brooch is hollow.
Without vent holes it would explode when hard soldered under high temperature and acid pickling afterwards.
How can you expect to find many Art Nouveau examples of the same brooch ? Even two identical pieces is a success.
Btw.steel dies for stamping silver sheets are very expensive and profitable to fake only if hundreds or thousands examples are made on industrial scale.
In short, I think your brooch is genuine.
Regards

dognose
Site Admin
Posts: 44423
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:53 pm
Location: England

Re: Unger Brooch

Postby dognose » Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:14 pm

bonsai wrote:
dognose wrote:Hi,

For further reading, see: Information Regarding Unger Brothers

Trev.


forgive me... the history is interesting but I dont see anything related to my question?


Any replies are for the benefit of anyone interested enough to read them, not just the OP.

Trev.

bonsai
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:00 am

Re: Unger Brooch

Postby bonsai » Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:17 pm

AG2012 wrote:
Anyway, I was told b/c of the way the vent holes are it's likely a fake?


I see nothing wrong with vent holes.The brooch is made of two halves;the front is die stamped and soldered to the back, meaning the brooch is hollow.
Without vent holes it would explode when hard soldered under high temperature and acid pickling afterwards.
How can you expect to find many Art Nouveau examples of the same brooch ? Even two identical pieces is a success.
Btw.steel dies for stamping silver sheets are very expensive and profitable to fake only if hundreds or thousands examples are made on industrial scale.
In short, I think your brooch is genuine.
Regards


Excellent thanks. I didnt know that re the steel. so basically if it's a fake we'd expect to see many replicas?

Re the vent holes I am seeking more info b/c I was told they should be "drilled" and these appear to be "punched with a nail" and that might indicate a fake.
I've looked high and low and find a # that look to be similar to mine. So I'm wondering if it's just natural variability in the pieces. I've also found stamps exactly like mine (the E in sterling is worn off at the bottom).

bonsai
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:00 am

Re: Unger Brooch

Postby bonsai » Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:19 pm

I've seen a # of "lovers dream" items that look like cheap replicas to me. Some not marked, others with the wrong bail for a locket. That would explain the large #s of that pattern (the steel dye and needing large # to produce fakes)

AG2012
contributor
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Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Unger Brooch

Postby AG2012 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:11 am

Fakes,in general:
On close inspection the joint between the two pieces (back and front) is visible in some sections around the edge.
There are other flaws that do not appear to be the result of normal wear.
Lack of detail.

bonsai
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:00 am

Re: Unger Brooch

Postby bonsai » Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:33 pm

I was told to watch for solder balls and all that
Re the lack of detail, for ex look at my brooch on the top left. There are no details of the silver beads. I believe they were, however worn away from holding as this i is where it'd be held. I inspected it closely and i'm unsure how (if it is a fake) they'd have detail on all the areas and miss that like that.

Re the soldering of the 2 pieces I believe mine is well enough, but would that wear away with time too to become visible in some areas? i began inspecting other unger brooches on sites and can see some solder lines in places... but I believe the pieces are legit.....just perhaps worn from wear.

Should these 2 types of "wear" be expected with age or are they more indicative of fakes?

AG2012
contributor
Posts: 4214
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Unger Brooch

Postby AG2012 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:26 am

Attempts to fake wear are not very successful because passage of time (hundred years) leaves micro traces in all directions which cannot be faked.
Soldered edges are sometimes visible even on high quality jewelry, but very discrete if due to wear after 100 years.
It takes time and experience with many examples in hands and inspecting them with 10 x jewelers loupe.
Regards

legrandmogol
contributor
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:22 pm

Re: Unger Brooch

Postby legrandmogol » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:11 am

Almost every fake Unger bros piece I have seen is made via Electroforming, it's fast and cheap and usually pretty obvious.

bonsai
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:00 am

Re: Unger Brooch

Postby bonsai » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:57 pm

legrandmogol wrote:Almost every fake Unger bros piece I have seen is made via Electroforming, it's fast and cheap and usually pretty obvious.


thank you both for the replies. I was reading about electro forming. My brooch does not appear to be made in that way correct? I'm looking at acquiring a locket now so trying to learn as much as possible. I've seen some that are quite clearly fakes.

legrandmogol
contributor
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Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:22 pm

Re: Unger Brooch

Postby legrandmogol » Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:35 pm

Yes, your piece was not made with electroforming. The details on your piece are sharp and beautiful and it is definitely authentic

bonsai
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:00 am

Re: Unger Brooch

Postby bonsai » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:55 pm

Thanks. As I've been trying to learn more and more and studying types of silver fakes. Am I correct that this is a piece that is most likely fake?

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