Old Dutch stamps ???

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r_l_m
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Old Dutch stamps ???

Postby r_l_m » Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:09 am

Hello everyone,

Can anyone help identify the stigma on the vase?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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dognose
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Re: Old Dutch stamps ???

Postby dognose » Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:30 am

Hi,

Facebook is not a suitable medium for posting images.

https://postimages.org (choose 'Share', then copy the 'Hotlink for forums' code) is recommended. Do not use Photobucket or Dropbox.

Ensure your images are embedded. Do not post links. Remember to use the 'Preview' button before submitting your post.

Trev.

r_l_m
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Re: Old Dutch stamps ???

Postby r_l_m » Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:30 am

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oel
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Re: Old Dutch stamps ???

Postby oel » Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:39 am

Hi,

Nothing to do with Dutch (hall)marks. Are you sure it is silver and not silver-plated?
For Dutch (hall)marks see:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32028



Peter

r_l_m
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Re: Old Dutch stamps ???

Postby r_l_m » Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:11 am

As I understand them: 1) this is the stigma of the city of Leiden for sample 833 “one key with the letter of the year” (1770-1790); 2) it is not clear to me - perhaps the stigma of a province or a master; 3) the mark "sailing ship". This is my opinion, but I would like to hear the opinion of more experienced forum specialists ...

AG2012
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Re: Old Dutch stamps ???

Postby AG2012 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:22 am

Hi,
First of all, die machine stamped metal sheet cannot be XVIII century.Silversmiths were very skilled at the time with raising silver on stakes, chasing, embossing,engraving.
This bread or candy basket was obviously machine mass produced,and as clearly stated above nothing to do with the Netherlands.
Test if solid silver.
Regards

oel
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Re: Old Dutch stamps ???

Postby oel » Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:02 am

Yes, I agree with AG2012, die stamped, factory made, time period 19th - early 20th century .

Peter.

r_l_m
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Re: Old Dutch stamps ???

Postby r_l_m » Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:44 am

Thank you all for your opinion! I myself was confused by the appearance of the product - it looks like a machine production. But you didn’t say anything about the hallmarks themselves ... Then the last question: could it be Hanau - did they often put old foreign hallmarks there? ..
Yours faithfully...

AG2012
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Re: Old Dutch stamps ???

Postby AG2012 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:42 pm

Does not look like Hanau.They did reproductions of old silver and marked them accordingly with fantasy mark imitating old marks.
Btw.not only Hanau, but also in The Netherlands and Switzerland (Atelier Bossard Luzern for example).Most of them simply wanted to to meet huge demand for``antique`` silver, i.e.no intention to deceive buyers (there were exceptions,of course).But they were excellent silversmiths and often used old techniques in making silver.That being said,this bread basket us not Hanau.
Regards

r_l_m
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Re: Old Dutch stamps ???

Postby r_l_m » Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:42 pm

Thank you all for your opinion! But what are all these stigmas? Does anyone have any constructive ideas?
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Here is the stigma of the city of Leiden, which, in my opinion, looks like the first stigma on a vase ...
With respect

joho
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Re: Old Dutch stamps ???

Postby joho » Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:47 am

The decoration looks Chinese to me. Also one mark on the basket, although not clear, appears to be 90, which was used as a silver standard mark in Hong Kong late 19th early 20th century. May be worth moving to the Asian forum.

Regards

r_l_m
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Re: Old Dutch stamps ???

Postby r_l_m » Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:29 am

Thank you joho for the hint ... Maybe here on the Asian forum, someone will recognize the stigma on the vase ...
Sincerely.

r_l_m
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Re: Old Dutch stamps ???

Postby r_l_m » Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:46 pm

I see that no one recognized the hallmarks on the vase ... Therefore, I want to give my arguments in more detail about why I defined the hallmarks as Dutch (or pseudo-Dutch):
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In each pair of drawings, the first is a brand from a vase. Those drawings that were taken for comparison: in the first pair - the stigma of the city of Leiden for 833/1000 (by reference viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32028 ); in the second pair - from the topic by reference viewtopic.php?t=53893 .
In addition, the encircled place on the central hallmark is very similar to the “crown” on many hallmarks of that period ...
Image
Yours faithfully...

AG2012
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Re: Old Dutch stamps ???

Postby AG2012 » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:53 pm

The discussion about particular Leiden marks and their variations would certainly make sense if found on 18th century silver item.
But marks appear on machine die stamped mass produced item most likely made well into 20 century.Not even very naive faker would apply so old Leiden marks.
Regards

r_l_m
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Re: Old Dutch stamps ???

Postby r_l_m » Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:59 am

I was just hoping that on this forum I would be offered a more believable version of the appearance of the stamps on the vase ... And they will show similar cases - but this has not happened yet ... But the stamps exist and there should be an explanation for this. (Moreover, the stamps are not very accurately minted - unlike the quality of the whole product as a whole). I do not think that this can be explained by the naivety of scammers - most likely the explanation lies in the plane of the phenomenon of the city of Hanau. I am not a great specialist in this field, but I also have a milkman, clearly made in the late 19th - early 20th century and bearing the 18th century Augsburg stamps in combination with the designation "13 lots" (which should not have happened if this had been done "not naive" scammer) ...
Sincerely.

dragonflywink
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Re: Old Dutch stamps ???

Postby dragonflywink » Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:04 am

There's no scamming or fakery involved, nor is it a machine-stamped piece - though your images are a bit fuzzy and the marks are poorly struck or worn, it is, as joho suggests, a late 19th-early 20th century Chinese basket, and to my eye, rather attractive. I can't make much out of the marks other than the already mentioned '90', but perhaps someone with better eyesight and/or more knowledge will have more luck...

https://www.925-1000.com/chinex_marks.html

~Cheryl

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Re: Old Dutch stamps ???

Postby dragonflywink » Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:32 am

Here is one similar, from Zee Wo of Shanghai:


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~Cheryl

r_l_m
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Re: Old Dutch stamps ???

Postby r_l_m » Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:38 am

Thank you so much dragonflywink !!! This is really a real help - after your message, I first believed that the solution to the mystery of these hallmarks was close ... If possible, please specify your thought: Do you think that the first hallmark is, after all, “90”? And does this mean, in all likelihood, a metal content of 900/1000?
With best regards...

r_l_m
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Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:13 am

Re: Old Dutch stamps ???

Postby r_l_m » Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:19 am

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I found one more very similar vase at one of the auctions (also from ZEE WO), but I still can’t find the exact match with my brand of the manufacturer ... I strengthened the confidence that one of the brands is “90”. Once again, I express my deep gratitude to joho and, especially, dragonflywink for help in the CORRECT determination of the belonging of the brands to a certain region and historical period!

r_l_m
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Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:13 am

Re: Old Dutch stamps ???

Postby r_l_m » Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:08 pm

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I want to share another find. The hallmarks («SING FAT»), it seems to me, are quite similar to my version (if the second and third are turned 180 degrees) ...
With best regards...


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