Marks

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
esspaniel
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:04 pm

Marks

Postby esspaniel » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:19 am

Can anyone tell me the origin, maker, and age of this piece.
Image
Image

dognose
Site Admin
Posts: 43779
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Location: England

Re: Marks

Postby dognose » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:32 am

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

Your images are far too small. Please post larger images.

Trev.

esspaniel
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:04 pm

Marks

Postby esspaniel » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:52 am

Here are the new re-sized pics. Thanks dognose, still learning, your input is appreciated.
Image
Image

davidross
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Re: Marks

Postby davidross » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:46 am

The photos aren't the clearest, but if the mark is TC (and not TO) it could be that of Tuck, Chang and Co. Some of their marks do have T with serifs.

Please see http://www.925-1000.com/chinex_marks.html and compare with the object in question.

Regards,

DR

rauls
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Re: Marks

Postby rauls » Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:18 am

The dealer's mark TC is for Tuck Chang which was in Shanghai and founded by an Englishman.
The maker's mark 生隆 belonged to a Cantonese silversmith or silver firm.

I saw this kind of item once before, but couldn't guess its use.

dognose
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Re: Marks

Postby dognose » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:32 am

Hi Rauls,

Many thanks for posting this wonderful image. Was there any further information accompanying the photo, a date, or address?

Can enough be made out from the character marks at the top of the image to link with the chop marks found on Tuck Chang's silverware?

Image

Also can any sharp-eyed member identify what is stated on the sign to the left hand side of the doorway?

Image

Regards, Trev.

Adrien von Ferscht
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Location: Glasgow, Scotland, UK
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Re: Marks

Postby Adrien von Ferscht » Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:30 am

Hi Rauls
Trevor has kindly sent me your image of the Tuck Chang store this morning which I obviously found fascinating.
I also was fascinated by the fact you said in a previous post that Tuck Chang was started by an Englishman. I'd much appreciate any information you have about this. I was also intrigued by the fact you've said the Chinese character mark was that of the Shanghai-based silversmith [or words to that effect I think] - many of the mid-late period CES makers had what can only be called "auspicious names" that bore no relation to the actual man or men running the show and as far as I'm aware, what have become known as "chopmarks" were almost always the mark of the artisan silversmith who worked the actual piece. All the CES makers were run on a production line method with a single piece being worked by several experts in their particular field under the eye of the master silversmith whose piece it was.
I can only assume the image of the store is one at 67 Broadway in Shanghai, but I'm slightly baffled by the Sikh gentleman standing to attention outside!
I am not aware that you and I have "met" - but you may know that I am currently researching and writing a massive work right now: "The History of Chinese Export Silver 1785-1940 Within the Context of 1200 Years of Chinese Silver Making". I have been made an Honorary Research Fellow at University of Glasgow to do this and any and all help from others would be greatly appreciated. Trevor is well aware of this and a constant source of information and encouragement.
I also write a weekly article based on my research which I post on my website as well as circulate to over 7000 people worldwide.
My website: www.chinese-export-silver.com
Hope to hear back from you
Best regards
Adrien

esspaniel
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:04 pm

Re: Marks

Postby esspaniel » Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:19 pm

well thanks all for your input cant really tell if its to or tc will be going out to get a better lens will send more pics of these marks.Is it suitable for me to clean this piece or do I leave it be?

rauls
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Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:04 am

Re: Marks

Postby rauls » Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:29 pm

dognose wrote:Hi Rauls,

Many thanks for posting this wonderful image. Was there any further information accompanying the photo, a date, or address?

Can enough be made out from the character marks at the top of the image to link with the chop marks found on Tuck Chang's silverware?

Image

Also can any sharp-eyed member identify what is stated on the sign to the left hand side of the doorway?

Image

Regards, Trev.


The two characters 德祥 is the Chinese name of Tuck Chang, actually Tuck Chang is the pronounce of 德祥.

Its address is No.67 Minxianlujiao Broadway Rd. (Broadway road is the currently Daming Road).

rauls
contributor
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:04 am

Re: Marks

Postby rauls » Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:31 pm

esspaniel wrote:well thanks all for your input cant really tell if its to or tc will be going out to get a better lens will send more pics of these marks.Is it suitable for me to clean this piece or do I leave it be?


No problem, I'm sure it's TC. I saw the mark many times, and now be able to distinguished it by the font type and shape.

rauls
contributor
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:04 am

Re: Marks

Postby rauls » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:15 pm

Adrien von Ferscht wrote:Hi Rauls
Trevor has kindly sent me your image of the Tuck Chang store this morning which I obviously found fascinating.
I also was fascinated by the fact you said in a previous post that Tuck Chang was started by an Englishman. I'd much appreciate any information you have about this. I was also intrigued by the fact you've said the Chinese character mark was that of the Shanghai-based silversmith [or words to that effect I think] - many of the mid-late period CES makers had what can only be called "auspicious names" that bore no relation to the actual man or men running the show and as far as I'm aware, what have become known as "chopmarks" were almost always the mark of the artisan silversmith who worked the actual piece. All the CES makers were run on a production line method with a single piece being worked by several experts in their particular field under the eye of the master silversmith whose piece it was.
I can only assume the image of the store is one at 67 Broadway in Shanghai, but I'm slightly baffled by the Sikh gentleman standing to attention outside!
I am not aware that you and I have "met" - but you may know that I am currently researching and writing a massive work right now: "The History of Chinese Export Silver 1785-1940 Within the Context of 1200 Years of Chinese Silver Making". I have been made an Honorary Research Fellow at University of Glasgow to do this and any and all help from others would be greatly appreciated. Trevor is well aware of this and a constant source of information and encouragement.
I also write a weekly article based on my research which I post on my website as well as circulate to over 7000 people worldwide.
My website: http://www.chinese-export-silver.com
Hope to hear back from you
Best regards
Adrien


Hello Adrien,

Sorry, it's just my guess. I should say the owner was probably an Englishman. I'm sure he is an English-speaking foreigner, but don't completely sure where he came from. I will try to find more data for him. Yes, the building in the photo is still in Shanghai.

On any CES, the marks in Chinese script are the firm names of the silversmiths. And you are correct, people in East Asia basically don't use their name for a company or store name, they (I meant the owners, founders or investors) select some auspicious characters to make up a name for their companies. The mark in Chinese on the silver is generally the name (or the first char) of the silversmith firm. But there are some exceptions, some dealers such as Nanking Store and Sincere stamped their Chinese names on a part items they sold. So it means not all marks in Chinese are chopmarks. Also, don't feel items sold by Tuck Chang were made by Shanghai-based silversmiths. I think almost all CES were made by Cantonese silversmiths.

Yes, I did heard your works recently. I'm not an expert of CES, I did know one who may be able to answer almost all questions about Chinese silver made in later 18c ~ 20c. But his works have been published and he will not share his reach results very soon, which maybe because he felt it's not mature enough. However, I still think I knows something you don't know. I will contact you privately.

Rauls

dognose
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Location: England

Re: Marks

Postby dognose » Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:13 pm

Hi Rauls,

Many thanks for the extra information.

Regards, Trev.

davidross
contributor
Posts: 460
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:58 am

Re: Marks

Postby davidross » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:11 pm

The item in question appears to be the handle of a spoon that would have had an MOP, ivory, or bone bowl. Without more pics or dimensions of the piece, this is only a guess based on having seen many similar spoons.

Regards
DR


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