Bowl english marks?

[Hose_dk]

i have this bowl and I dont know anything. Marks are very difficult but might be Silver over Hand made but that is a guess.

The text is in a language I have never seen - origin?

Size is 153 gram, 14cm diameter and 7cm high. Anyone guessing or knowing origin and age? Picture in the middle might be turned up down?

[kerangoumar]

the middle picture is correctly oriented; one of the middle eastern-to-the-borders-of-india languages. if nobody can tell you by friday what it is i will dig out my book of world languages illustrated with specimens, it should be in there.

[Hose_dk]

I would very much like that. So thanks in advance.
I have been told that it might be something in the Georgien / Kaukasus region.
So that correspond with our finding.
To me it is completely nonsence so I realy would like to have some light shed of this. My guess was Thailand - but Thai it is not.

I even bought this as "possible silver" but I am convinced that it is silver - asid test turned red.

[fatso]

to my mind, the middle picture is upside down. Then the bottom line might be the date.
I seem to have seen this language handwritten somewhere.
Transcaucasian- georgian? armenian?
Suggest you search along those lines.

[admin]

Hi,
I'm sure it is Southeast Asian, probably Burmese and think fatso is correct about the text being upside down. I see the "silver handmade" and think the top word on the opposite side may have a shot at being "Rangoon", probably wishful thinking on my part.
Regards, Tom

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/burmese.htm

[fatso]

Could be. I have a similar problem and nobody does seem to have an answer for me:
viewtopic.php?t=11659
Notice the roundness of burmese script. This has evolved in such a way over a period of time as early texts were written on the palm leaf and sharp lines might crack the base of text. In my case I have written to the Myanmar representation in London and commercial interests in the Rangoon seeking their advice. They don't answer and judging from newspapar reports they are not nice people to deal with.
In writing the above I have followed my hunch as have seen those caucasian scripts in the past and the object itself does have this quasi-mediterraean look to it. Please remember that the Noah's Ark is supposed to have landed on Ararat mountain, i.e. in Armenia.

[Hose_dk]

Burma - that would explain why some is in english - Rangoon I cannot see, but again I cannot see anything in that mark - India too.
I have been trying to compare, but it makes absolutely no sence to me. (engraving). Anyone that can see just at bit - to confirm origin.
Thank you for the suggestions.

[fatso]

You cannot say that I am not persistent.

Have taken your middle image and after enlarging, have flipped it upside down. I can see, very faintly, writing in english between those two lines, when so oriented. Right handed text says: silver, hand made. left handed text does reveal, probably, origin of your specimen on cloeser inspection but is not legible now.

The secret scribble does have a feel as it is written from right to left if I am not mistaken.

[fatso]

Upon further ruminations, I do believe I can recognise some armenian letters. Don't take me for a Champellion, that french solver of egyptian
hielogryphic riddle but it reads, something like Ezam 1 dlom, the first letter being the inverted e and the second, absent from the alphabet, I have borrowed from the cyrillic alphabet -Russia after all were the rulers of
Caucasus at the time. Take my musings with the pinch of salt but please check those pages:

http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.php?t ... n_Alphabet
Your picture has to be viewed in some reader capable of flipping it 180 degrees so the presumed date at the bottom does read like 4.10.11
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj51 ... script.jpg

Strangely it does show the intended way in the photobucket but reverts to the original if inserted here.

I suggest you email the picture to the armenian embassy, they migh be able to help further.

[Hose_dk]

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk23 ... 586__b.jpg
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk23 ... 585__b.jpg

Thanks you confirm my guess that it said Silver over Hand made. I have tried to take new pictures of mark but they dont seem to be better The mark is very difficould to see.

1911 could be age. It is an elder item, but not that old. So 1911 might be right.

I wonder what the embassey would say but I can try. I dont know anyone that reads that language.

[fatso]

Obviously the silver item has been scarred with latin letters lightly,
while in the West. The original hallmarks were painstakingly hand applied
with a small chisel and a mallet. The former perished almost but the latter did stand the test of time.
I suggest you smear the surface with some greasy soot , then wipe off gently
and try and look at an angle. You might see missing letters then.
Please keep us informed here as it does turn into exciting quest.

[fatso]

The plot thickens: I took liberty of passing your script to Warsaw of all the places where does reside a scientist, armenian language native speaker.
According to her, the sript most definitely is NOT an armenian one.

[Hose_dk]

Thanks I have not yet had chance of doing more with photo and contact to embassy.
I must try - burma?

[Hose_dk]

Iran heve just been tested. We had 8 visitors (where I work) so I printed the picture - they asked "what language is it?" - so we are not anywhere in that region.

[fatso]

Try somewhere in the Far Eastern region.
While trying to solve my own conundrum I keep yours
in the back of my mind. Should I strike lucky I will let
everybody here know.

[kerangoumar]

I have now looked through my books of ancient, obsolete, disused and uncommon language scripts and find nothing that resembles it. It is too blocky to be an Arabic tongue, and it is too unornamented to be Sanskrit or similar and it is not rounded enough to be Burmese and its like. Also it is not one of the crossover languages that occur in the area of northern Iran and going west - in some of the former Soviet republics there are scripts that combine Arabic and Cyrillic features. It is not Turkish and definitely not Armenian.

It makes little sense in either direction and when looked at in the mirror.
Perhaps it was someone's private script - there are plenty of "languages" that have been - and continue to be - invented.


To me the script has directionality and I still think it is correctly oriented relative to the "handmade" stamp as that stamp is on the inside of the bowl. I don't think it is extremely old because of the "Handmade Silver" mark - unless that was added to it later - moreover as you know the Far East recycles its decorative images over a scale of centuries. Can you post a clear picture that show the part of the bowl where this script is engraved?

[Hose_dk]

Thanks for you research.
The mark is at the outside of the bowl under the buttom. I cannot get a real good picture of it as it reflect the light.
Bowl inside -no marks
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk23 ... G_3596.jpg

Bowl outside with marks and script
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk23 ... G_3598.jpg
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk23 ... G_3597.jpg

[fatso]

I feel excited like some forensic scientist on a trail of the great unknown.
Let us gather some facts:
* your bowl is beautifiul, certainly not some alms begging bowl but a possession of a wealthy person.
* the silversmith knew his craft, witness the nice ornament at the edge.
* the bowl, of the eastern appearance, has passed into the western domain and has been marked so in english. If only we could tell what it does say in the description of the item!

I have taken your picture again into my Nero image manipulator. I have inverted the colours, sharpened, twisted and did everything in my power in order to make it yield its secret. Rt hand english text, "Silver hand made" is not so easily discerned now but the similar text to the left
in Latin Alphabet does reveal letters K W at the end of a shortish, 5-6 letter word?
The plot thickens!

[Marksman]

Picture in the middle might be turned up down?[/quote]

Hi The language is Thai. The picture is upside down. It says " Silver Number 1 Special" the bottom line says the thai words Nor Noo, 10 , Bor b mai. It could mean the initials of the maker but unsure. Hope this helps some.

[Siamois]

The language is Thai:
Special and Number 1 Silver (which meant to say this bowl was made from highest silver content)
Then, the numerical 10 and some Thai words (which meant to say the weight of the bowl is 10-Bath or 5 ounces.

Very nice bowl. But, I believe it is a modern item not antique.