Engraved Cigarette Box

[Granmaa]

This is a cigarette box with a seperate compartment for matches as well as a match-strike on the side.
There are two things I'd like to know:

Where was it made? The costumes and objects in the engraving suggest Eastern Europe or the Middle East.

What is the hole for in the first picture? The hole goes right through the box to the other side; it was suggested to me that a string went through and hung on somebody's belt, but it seems too large and heavy for that. 4 inches long and 11oz.

Miles

[Granmaa]

From the sword and dress in the engraving, I would say it might be Persian. I also found a Persian tile painting with a similar wine vessel to the one on the cigarette case.

Miles

[2209patrick]

Hi Miles.

Just wanted to say that is a great looking box.
Wish I could help, but have no ideas.

If the box were bigger, I'd guess the hole was for a cigar cutter.

Pat.

[admin]

Hi Miles,
Showed your post to an Iranian dealer today, he suggested the decoration was imitating work of the qajar period and that the box was probably made c.1920 in...damn, not sure any longer, but it was a city noted for carpets, I think Kerman (Kirman).

Regards, Tom

[Granmaa]

Thanks Pat and Tom.

I'd be interested to know if the engraving told a particular story or if it were just a feasting scene. The person got it from said the man with the sword was a well known prince.

The hole still puzzles me. I don't like the belt theory, could it be for rolling cigarettes? It doesn't seem very practical to me though.

Miles

[MCB]

Hello Miles,
The string theory doesn't seem right somehow. Wouldn't there be some signs of wear from the cord chafing the edges of the holes? Especially in view of the 11oz weight it would have carried.
Normally a cigarette roller would have an open groove for settling in the paper and for getting fingers in to spread out the loose tobacco along with a means to do the rolling. None seem apparent here.The box would usually be gilded if it was intended for tobacco. I can't tell from what is visible.
It occurs to me there may be a piece missing, an end stopped tube for instance which pulled into two parts and fitted the holes. To hold a small pencil or a lipstick perhaps?
Regards,
Mike

[jackk]

I have a similar tobacco box, but Russian made. It has two separate compartments, one for matches, and the other one for tobacco. Also, there is a hole going through the box. According to my research (i.e. talking to Russian silver dealers) this hole is for keeping rolled cigarette paper.

[Granmaa]

Those are both interesting theories, but they don't quite sit right with me.
I hope this doesn't turn out to be another case of lost knowledge.

Miles

[admin]

I vaguely recall seeing a compartmentalized brass tinder box that had a hole with a fat piece of wicking extending from it.
In a more fastidious vein, it seems a perfect way to get rid of a spent match.

Regards, Tom

[jackk]

Ok, I got more insight from another russian antique dealer. According to him, this was for a "rope lighter". I have no idea how that worked.

[admin]

Hi Trev,
Here ya go, it would be the same as the tinder box, I mentioned.

http://blog.goingprepared.com/2009/03/0 ... e-lighter/

[jackk]

I hate to do this, but somehow this still doesn't talk to me. Why would there be a need for a rope lighter when there is a compartment for matches? :)

[admin]

Hi Jackk,
Smoking was (and still is in increasing isolated pockets) a social habit with a fair amount of etiquette involved. One just didn't light up without offering the box around to the group as a whole. A fancy tobacco case was a prestige or status symbol, what better way to show it off than to strike a match, get the rope smoldering and pass the box around amongst your friends?

Regards, Tom

[jackk]

Tom that sounds like a good explanation. I think this will give me peace of mind.