Another I (Perth?)

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
Aguest
contributor
Posts: 960
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:26 am

Another I (Perth?)

Postby Aguest » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:19 am

Anything beginning with "I" is difficult : there may be hope in the strange town mark which could be a corner of the Perth town hallmark, or....? :::
The "Double-Drop" is unusually large and it is angular in a sort of faceted kind of manner ::::

Image

Image

Image

Aguest
contributor
Posts: 960
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:26 am

Re: Another I (Perth?)

Postby Aguest » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:34 am

It could be a variation of this (Perth) town hallmark:

Image
Image

Aguest
contributor
Posts: 960
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:26 am

Re: Another I (Perth?)

Postby Aguest » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:33 am

Another remote possibility is the Colonial American Silversmith John Dolbeare of Boston who died in June 1740 :: I could only find one example of the hallmarks of John Dolbeare, and apparently he was also in a partnership, but the one example I could find has a "seated lady" hallmark and here you can compare the two ::: (there are several examples of his work in the Boston Museum so that could be an avenue for further research) ::::

Image
Image

Aguest
contributor
Posts: 960
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:26 am

Re: Another I (Perth?)

Postby Aguest » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:45 am

James Dolbeare was also a Boston Silversmith who died in 1743 (maker's mark unknown) so you would think that his mark would resemble John Dolbeare, but apparently no hallmark is known by James Dolbeare :::

Aguest
contributor
Posts: 960
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:26 am

Re: Another I (Perth?)

Postby Aguest » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:48 pm

I have been considering John Mair of Calcutta (sometimes I see an "I.M" hallmark but the second letter might not be an M) but the design of the drop seems to be much too early to be John Mair :: I have no idea what that second hallmark is :::

Aguest
contributor
Posts: 960
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:26 am

Re: Another I (Perth?)

Postby Aguest » Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:52 am

Looked at American Colonial Joseph Moulton which seems to match the "I.M" but then you run into the other hallmark which has no explanation ::
Last post : I give up : I am completely out of even suggesting a remotely plausible match to this hallmark so I await further instruction :::::

Aguest
contributor
Posts: 960
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:26 am

Re: Another I (Perth?)

Postby Aguest » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:27 am

Last post : This distinctive "large double drop" construction has been seen on 18th century Belgium spoons : A comparison : End of final post :

Image
Image

mk209
contributor
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:15 pm

Re: Another I (Perth?)

Postby mk209 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:01 am

Looks Swiss to me? Zurich?

Aguest
contributor
Posts: 960
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:26 am

Swiss? 18th c.

Postby Aguest » Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:09 am

Probably Swiss :: I read what I could yet I lack the most comprehensive books on the subject ::: It has to be Switzerland ::::

Joerg
contributor
Posts: 369
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:41 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: Another I (Perth?)

Postby Joerg » Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:01 pm

I have a collection of Swiss silver spoons, starting around 1750. Spoons from this type are common in my collection, they usually date from 1800, take or give a few years. However, I have not many spoons from outside Switzerland, so I have little experience if this type is common in Europe or rather specific Swiss. I leave this assessment to other forum members.
If the spoon HAS TO BE Swiss, it is difficult finding a match. I could not find a match in Weltliches Silber II, which is very complete on flatware from this period, nor in Weltliches Silber 1, which usually deals with older silver.
I am not aware of a city mark starting with I..., so I assume this is the maker. Then the city mark is the Z shaped mark. Z fits for Zurich, however, they changed from the Z to the coat of arms in 1779. And the spoon does not look older than 1779. And the Z in the Zurich city mark looks different, and there is no maker mark match starting with an I for Zurich short before 1779, and...
I do not think the Z..ish mark is really a Z, but what it is, I do not know. Maybe some other memebers have a good idea.
Kind regards, Jörg

Aguest
contributor
Posts: 960
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:26 am

Swiss? 18th c.

Postby Aguest » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:32 am

Thank you for your comment, it has been helpful, if the book you reference is quite comprehensive then I will have to consider other options and completely start over, I just find it curious that there is a good amount of detail on the hallmarks yet we have not yet found a match, I've certainly had spoons with much more faint and rubbed hallmarks and still been able to identify at least a country of origin, so that is curious :::

If an experienced collector in Swiss Silver with the comprehensive reference guide cannot find a match, then other countries must be considered ::

It just got frustrating after searching for hours and hours ::::

mk209
contributor
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:15 pm

Re: Another I (Perth?)

Postby mk209 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:04 am

It is frustrating at times but eventually you’ll find out. I had one spoon with perfect marks and three years later on here somebody posted a ref to my mark on something else related.

That spoon type I’ve seen around the Alps region countries and into Northern countries even to Sweden (similar drops). Italian and French cutlery I own have rather large exaggerated drops.

As well as my own research I’m always looking for other peoples on this forum too like a few others do so maybe we’ll get lucky and be able to identify it at some point.

Matt.


Return to “Other Countries”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests