Russian mark

[pez80]

I was wondering what could be the makers mark of this spoon and year ?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c0xq3epc8z0tl ... edfull.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jvdcpayasyauw ... edhel3.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xot5fjr4lnild2i/sked2.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x41rq9m5n2lx60h/sked.84.jpg

Regards

[AG2012]

There was Semen Kazakov working in Moscow 1889 and after 1908. The mark # 2881 in PL with curious letter C looking like G.

[klingert1974]

Looks like Gustav Klingert to me. He worked from 1865-1916 I think mainly in Moscow.
The spoon looks very similar work to the one I have by Gustav. He has a couple of different makers stamps I have seen like GK or KLINGERT.

[klingert1974]

Not sure how to edit my post but was going to say after I said it looked similar to one of my spoons from him...I have seen other spoons of his also and a lot of them usually have the turquoise colour which supposably he was known for a lot.

I am certainly no expert but that's the best I could come up with :)

[Qrt.S]

It is not Gustav Klingert but as AG2012 already stated it is Semen Kazakov. It is a common misunderstanding that it would be Klingert. The hallmark tells us that the spoon is made in Moscow not earlier than 1889 and not later than 1898.

[Dad]

Hi, All.

I think it is Gustav Klingert factory.
Look at a saltcellar example. Here the first letter "G" in the master's punch is well visible. Semyon Kazakov's punch has the first letter "C" (Cyrillics).

[Qrt.S]

Check P#2881 and P#3035 and compare.

[oel]

Hi, for comparison, the mark in question on the spoon, appears to have a dot in the middle.

The mark of Gustav Klingert in Postnikova-L


And the mark's of Semyon Kazakov in Postnikova-L



Question; could Gustav Klingert had more distinct G.K marks and not mentioned/shown in Postnikova-L?

Oel.

[Qrt.S]

Undoubtedly there are anomalies when it comes to Russian silver marks and especially maker's marks. Punches are broken, worn out, renewed etc. etc. Yes there seems to be a "dot" between C/G and K. The dot in Klingert's mark is, however, after K. ...but as said anomalies...Moreover, Klingert usually punched in Cyrillic letters i.e.: ГЛ, КЛИНГА Т and more seldom GK, GK. and KLINGERT. Please keep in mind that Klingert made cloisonné -objects in an outstanding quality!

Use the Search funcition with "Klingert" and you will find a lot of information about him and his work. In addition, Klingert belongs to those Russian makers that are often faked. You will not find authentic Klingert objects around every corner...they are rather rare! I still don't think that the spoon is made by Klingert. The hallmark looks a bit suspicious, no notches up and down...but??? Compare with picture.

[AG2012]

http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... CK#p102438

[Zolotnik]

Hi all -
as always the voice of the collector with real objects at hand and not dubious photos and items collected from unknown sources:
As far as I have seen authentic Klingert objects - they always have the in my photos shown variety of colour. The blunt unicolour turquois I never have seen - although in literature it is mentioned. I think one author copied from the other. Internet is full of fakes - even tablewear - all by Klingert. With this ugly objects he would not have won countless intenational prices and awards. Just a look at the crippled St. George and phony marks tells a story. But now the mantra like discussion will follow - fake - no fake. Some people are without knowledge and see what they want to see. This is not my problem. For the interested I can show some authentic stuff - the rest will ignore every fact. We experience this everyday.

Klingert usually punched in Cyrillic letters i.e.: ГЛ

????????????????









Regards
Zolotnik

Please name in the future your sources for all your posted photos - it makes a valuation very easy!

[Zolotnik]

Hi all -
some other, not so prestigious stuff as always shown - but always in the typical configuration and colours - no turquoise!







Regards
Zolotnik

[oel]

Hi All,

The hallmark of the spoon in question.

The hallmark on the spoon, if you observe, has the notches up and down, hall marks punched on round etches of a stem are known to look deviant of the original and to make it even worse after the hallmark has been punched the silver smith has to reshape the stem of the spoon thus even more altering the hallmark.

The salt throne shown by our Dad clearly shows a maker’s mark G.K, it appears the G in the maker’s mark of the salt throne has been a little altered or worked on. The cigarette case shown by Zolotnik, to me, the maker’s mark does look like G.K.
I agree many Russian popular silver items come with spurious (hall) marks and today well known auction houses clearly describe some dubious Russian silver, in the auction catalogs; with Russian pseudo marks (and whopping estimates)
Postnikova —L the Russian silver ‘bible’ is not without mistakes and/or ambiguities, and to contribute a maker’s mark can be very difficult but it is very easy to call fake.And the more people involved, the more 'expert' opinions, everyone is entitled to have his own opinion and we not always share the same opinion, we only can respect.


Oel (tested to be color blind).

[Zolotnik]

Hi all -

Here the known marks of Klingert:



Some often knowingly used wrong marks and some easy to detect fakes:



(Not Klingert, but Kopilov., Gerasim Fedorov - but declared as Klingert = price!!)

Klingert´s worldfamous honeycomb pattern as fake:




Klingert´s typical style - according to some literature -easy to fake and just ugly:





Maybe you have now a little overview of what is going on.

Regards
Zolotnik

[piette]

I agree with Zolotnik about this spoon - to me it is more than dubious. As stated by Zolotnik, this excess use of blue doesn't appear in Klingert's work. I have seen teaspoons with this style used as shown on a spoon from my collection below, but not from a maker like Klingert.

See: Teaspoon with blue, Nikolai Pavlov

P.

[oel]

Hi All
Again for comparison the spoon in question perhaps not made by Klingert but that does not necessarily turn it to be a fake :

Who's Afraid of Red, Turquoise and Blue


Oel.

[Qrt.S]

Hello piette, nice to have you back, haven't heard from you since donkey's years...

Anyway, let's put things in their correct order. It was AG2012 at 2:57 pm who stated that the spoon is most likely made by Semen Kazakov and not Klingert. I supported AG2012 at 7:34 pm...I also pointed out at 9:07 am that the marks seems to be dubious....!

[Zolotnik]

Hi -

I am sure it was 9:08 ....

[klingert1974]

here is one of the spoons I have but after reading comments I realise this is not a good example and more than likely a super fake because the makers mark is upside down to the assayers mark and isn't exactly readable 100%.

[klingert1974]

I have a couple of other supposable gustav spoons with KLINGERT inscribed on them I wanted to show but seem to have misplaced. I will show when can find them.