unknown russian mark from about 1914

[R ingo]

Hello,
can someone help me with this spoon. Interestingly the spoon is marked on the inner side of the bowl.
It was fabricated between 1908 and 1914, but the greek letter in the Kokoshnik mark is sadly not to identify, even not under the microscope (probably it is a delta, but I am not sure).
The makers mark is interestingly only one letter Ж (Zhe). This mark is not to find in the Russian makers mark overview.
Furthermore I would be glad to know, what the engraving on the stem/ handle means. Wologda is a russian city, but why it is written in latin letters? How the engraving above Wologda is to interpret?

I would be glad, if someone can help me,
kind regards, Ringo

[piette]

Hi,
To me, the greek letter is delta for Moscow and if you look closely at the makers mark, it is actually two letters, not one... It is probably Г.Ж or Т.Ж
Regards,
Piette

[admin]

Wologda is a russian city, but why it is written in latin letters?

latin letters and Germanic spelling. I read the mono as "H. Struck", just a guess, but I suspect the spoon was presented to Herr Struck, or commissioned by him, as a keepsake of time spent in Vologda in 1914.

Regards, Tom

[Qrt.S]

To me the spoon looks very strange for many reasons. The kokoshnik looks queer, look at the actual kokshnik and the back head, not to mention that the top head and neck are touching the cartouch etc.. Moreover, on a Russian spoon the marks are usually on the stem and not on the bowl. The marks can, however, exceptionally be on the bowl but in such case the stem is made of bone, wood, mother-of-pearl or some other non-silver material. It is also rather rare having Latin letters on Russian spoon. Even more strange having a Russian town written in Latin letters ??? Then you have this peculiar and rather modern engraving also in Latin letters.

The maker could be as piette also anticipates Г.Ж but I have no trace of such initials for the respective years.

Wologda is located about 500 km north east of Moscow. A dubious spoon I would say.

[R ingo]

Hello Piette,
thanks for your help. I also thought, that the makers mark ist worn out and the Ж is only the rest of a bigger mark with two letters. This would be logical and to expect. But when I see the mark under the mikroscope, I am not sure. I have tryed to make a better photo.

Hello Tom,
thanks for the interpretation of the endgravning. I thought long and hard, but I did not saw H. Struck. But you are right, H. STRUCK is very plausible.

Hello Ort.S,
I am glad, that you also think, that this is a dubious spoon. Because I am not a expert in russian silver, but I thought, that the spoon is interesting.

Thanks to you, and here is a better Photo,
Kind regards, Ringo

[Qrt.S]

Sometimes a microscope creates a too big magnification. Try to use a 6-10x magnifying loupe. That will give you the best result. here you have some pictures to investigate and make conclusions from

[Postnikov]

Hi Ringo -
the spoon is real a riddle. Sometimes you find Russian spoons with engravings you do not understand easy - prisoners of war, Russian-Germans, presents, souvenirs with different, to us unknown backgrounds, etc.

Here a photo for better understanding:


This is a typical Russian and European pattern. Russian spoons are always bend at the tip of the handle - not on your spoon! Normally spoons are marked on the back of the stem or handle - if there is enough room, otherwise inside the bowl - not on your spoon! (see photos).




The name H.STRUCK is engraved by an other hand than the word Wologda. Wologda in Latin letters was engraved by a Russian speaking and writing person - have a look at the similarity to single Cyr. letters. The dot behind 1914 harden this guess - in Russia follows after the year always the Cyr. letter Г (god = year). In Europa nobody engrave a dot after a date! The marks are without reason on the wrong place and probably faked - but this was already said.

Regards
Postnikov

[R ingo]

Hello Ort.S,
I thank you for your advice. Your Photo is very good and in future I will try to use such a 6-10x magnifying loupe. My loups are not good enough and the mark is on a difficult place on the spoon to make a good photo, but there is no clear greek letter in the mark to see, also not with my microscope. I have tried to make a photo for a last time.
There is a strukture to see, where the greek letter has to be. The surface of this structure is rough and it seems to me, that the letter is not worn out, but rather the state of the punching tool is the reason for this unclear structure.
I also think like you, that there is a relict of a second letter in the makers mark, like Piette said, surely the letter Г. But interestingly the mark is deep enough and the punching tool was fitted perpendicular and not sloping. So it is difficult to understand, why this side of the border of the mark should be worn out. I have no idea.

Hello Postnikov,
I thank you for your very interesting informations. I think, you are right and the marks are probably fakes. But from when and why on such a uncommon location (and who is Mr. H. Struck who has to abandon Wologda in the year of the beginning war )?

I thank you all very much for your help,
kind regards,
Ringo

[piette]

But from when and why on such a uncommon location (and who is Mr. H. Struck who has to abandon Wologda in the year of the beginning war )?

Hi Ringo,
Fakers will do anything to sell their items. All the engravings on the spoon are more than likely fantasy.
Regards,
Piette

[R ingo]

Hello,
I would expect, that a faker use the usual place for the marks.

Be that as it may, I have found another spoon, also from Moskow (Kokoshnik with Delta), with marks inside of the bows.

Kind regards,
Ringo

[Qrt.S]

Hmmmm.... an interesting case this spoon too. The assayer's mark from 1908-1926 shows that it is assayed in Moscow. But! The marks are usually be on the stem or handle. Here they are on the bowl which is uncommon. The maker's marks lacks a dot...but? Anyway, it might be Vasily Timofeyevich Chuvilyayev who made spoons 1900~1908 maybe a bit later too

[R ingo]

Hello Qrt.S,
excuse me for my late answer. I thank you for the information.

Kind regards,
Ringo