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steveshaz · Joined: 28 Dec 2007 Posts: 4 Location: UK

hi the bowl is 8" round and has animals all around very deep carving

kerangoumar · Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:34 am Post subject:

Very nice bowl - can we have more pictures? I want to say it is Persian - simply because of its appearance.

It also strikes me as possibly Indian given that it has some similarity to silver of the region. Stylistically it resembles Lucknow silver from the time of the Raj - but the sword-wielding lion has got me. There was a time when there was a confluence of civilisations in India and the Persian influence is most dramatically seen in the Taj Mahal. SO, until further information is forthcoming I will stand by Persian or Persian-influenced
India.

http://www.orientations.com.hk/071033.jpg

These foraging peahens are from the time of the Moughal emperors, 18th c. Their bodies have areas of the type of work found on your bowl. Though it is difficult to date a lot of this type of work - stylized and therefore repeated over long stretches of time - I think it is a more recent work.

steveshaz · Joined: 28 Dec 2007 Posts: 4 Location: UK

thanks for your quick reply, hear are more phots , hope this helps

kerangoumar · Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:19 pm Post subject:

Hello Steve-

The bowl is quite pleasant and well-decorated. Though it shows the persian sword-holding tiger it isn't from Persia as their style of decorating is rather flatter, with less emphasis on the deep relief you see here. So it tends to convince me that it is most likely from India. Of course that begs the question you would like answered - who made it?

You are in the UK - I would suggest this is the point where help from a museum with deep holdings of eastern works, especially silver, are located. try the Victoria and Albert first as they have had some good exhibitions of Anglo-Indian silver.

Many of the subcontinent's silver forms are made for many generations so it is difficult to date without some other factor. You have the marks. unfortunately I have currently no access to reference materials on India. good luck.

Here is a picture of an Anglo-Indian tray made about 1860 for the English market; you see the similarity in the swirling tendrils. The tray's background is covered allover in punches; yours, in contrast, has a nielloed background. (i was going to say that it might show a preference for a more austere background to show off the animals but seriously, that's not so; there is a great love in Indian everything for piling decoration upon decoration, to give the eye pleasure by its unimaginable richness)

admin · Site Admin Joined: 01 Apr 2005 Posts: 2350

Hi,
The decoration is similar to motives found on Persian, Indian & Southeast Asian silver, but I'm fairly sure it is a piece of Yogya (Djokja, Jogya) silver from Indonesia. You can view a number of comparable pieces here -> Tropenmuseum Amsterdam

Regards, Tom

dragonflywink · Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:19 pm Post subject:

Can't say that I recognize the marks (not surprising), but suspect that this piece is Burmese, the rotund form and decoration is typical of bowls made there for centuries and still being produced today.

http://www.grad.niu.edu/burma/webpgs/collectMetal.html

http://www.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/silver_craft_north_thailand.html

~Cheryl

admin · Site Admin Joined: 01 Apr 2005 Posts: 2350

Cheryl may well be right, plenty of commonalities with the Burmese examples.
I vaguely recall, from a long ago glance at Wynyard Wilkinson's "Anglo-Indian" silver, that the designs engraved or chased on the bottom of Burmese silver are sometimes indicators of the maker. Can anyone verify this?

Regards, Tom

steveshaz · Joined: 28 Dec 2007 Posts: 4 Location: UK

thanks for all your help and a happy new year

kerangoumar · Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:52 am Post subject:

Tom -- there appears to be considerable difference between the edges of the figures in the Tropenmuseum's collection and this bowl - this bowl has a much harder-edged appearance. And what is your opinion of the Persian lion - or is he someone else's??

kerangoumar · Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:01 am Post subject:

Meant to add a link in which this is particularly apparent.

http://tinyurl.com/2vhgo3
admin edit

(Sorry about the distortion - if I could make the image pasting work I would do it)
Also have some VIetnamese silver which is very similar - there is quite a lot of similarity in the output of that corner of the world. Steve - your best bet is to send files of the bowl and mark to a museum. You might even try the Tropenmuseum tho their language is Dutch.

steveshaz · Joined: 28 Dec 2007 Posts: 4 Location: UK

looking at the mark it looks to me as hes holding a snake ? the bowl hasnot got a flat base it round , its quite heavy , when i found the bowl it was black ,like in side, the rim of the bowl has been riveted on