I can take more pictures if it will help. Just let me know what specifically you would need or if you need closer pictures of what I have already posted. Thanks in advance.
Michael
Cigarette Case Help
Cigarette Case Help
I am trying to get any information possible on this cigarette case. I believe it is Russian. There are a number of what I think are names listed on both inside covers.
I can take more pictures if it will help. Just let me know what specifically you would need or if you need closer pictures of what I have already posted. Thanks in advance.
Michael
I can take more pictures if it will help. Just let me know what specifically you would need or if you need closer pictures of what I have already posted. Thanks in advance.
Michael
Re: Cigarette Case Help
Hi birdman -
I do not know what you know about Russian silver - here a cigarette case - how it was marked, who were the makers and the different techniques how applications were usual fixed etc.
Also you should know something about the big market of authentic objects, complete new fakes, old (authentic) silver "upgraded/faked" to more important masters or decorated with more applications (monogramms in gold or different coins), engravings etc. Russian objects are in and bring big money!So beware!
My opinion to your cigarette case:
The case is authentic and was later "beautified" with some poorly fixed photo frames (gold, essential parts mostly missing, covering inscriptions etc.) and some sensless Mexican coins.
Overall condition: not original as purchased/made and vandaliced/ill treated. No value for the collector.
The maker Iwan Petrowitsch Chlebnikow was famous and worked in St. Petersburg and Moscow.
Normaly each half of the cigarette case should be marked - maybe one punch is hidden under the photo frame...
Regards
Zolotnik
I do not know what you know about Russian silver - here a cigarette case - how it was marked, who were the makers and the different techniques how applications were usual fixed etc.
Also you should know something about the big market of authentic objects, complete new fakes, old (authentic) silver "upgraded/faked" to more important masters or decorated with more applications (monogramms in gold or different coins), engravings etc. Russian objects are in and bring big money!So beware!
My opinion to your cigarette case:
The case is authentic and was later "beautified" with some poorly fixed photo frames (gold, essential parts mostly missing, covering inscriptions etc.) and some sensless Mexican coins.
Overall condition: not original as purchased/made and vandaliced/ill treated. No value for the collector.
The maker Iwan Petrowitsch Chlebnikow was famous and worked in St. Petersburg and Moscow.
Normaly each half of the cigarette case should be marked - maybe one punch is hidden under the photo frame...
Regards
Zolotnik
Re: Cigarette Case Help
Hi Zolotnik,
Thank you for the information. I had assumed that at some point in time someone had added the Mexican coins. I'm not sure what you mean about the photo frames. I know some of the history of this case. It came from Germany at the end of WWII. It was "traded" between Russian and American troops with a German acting as a go between.
I have no interest in value in this item, but much interest in finding out as much as I can about the "story" behind it and who made it and what time period. I hope to understand the marks that are stamped. By reading this forum I know the meaning of the "84". So some progress !!
The names inscribed inside the covers intrigue me as I would like to discover how they are related, same army unit, university, science or just a group of friends ?? I would think that the maker made a number of these and each person got one ?? Maybe not ??
It was not purchased, so I have no concerns about value.
Michael
Thank you for the information. I had assumed that at some point in time someone had added the Mexican coins. I'm not sure what you mean about the photo frames. I know some of the history of this case. It came from Germany at the end of WWII. It was "traded" between Russian and American troops with a German acting as a go between.
I have no interest in value in this item, but much interest in finding out as much as I can about the "story" behind it and who made it and what time period. I hope to understand the marks that are stamped. By reading this forum I know the meaning of the "84". So some progress !!
The names inscribed inside the covers intrigue me as I would like to discover how they are related, same army unit, university, science or just a group of friends ?? I would think that the maker made a number of these and each person got one ?? Maybe not ??
It was not purchased, so I have no concerns about value.
Michael
Re: Cigarette Case Help
It is a pity that the cigarette case is more or less destroyed. It is, anyway, made between 1899-1908. If you are interested, here are what is written on the outside and the names inside. I would also be interested in knowing what the are two Cyrillic letters behind the neck in the kokshnik mark (84). Kindly tell us or show a better close-up of the kokshnik mark only. I would as well be interested in knowing what marks are punched on the other half. Thank you in advance.
On the outside you can read 24 August 1908 and the names inside are (of what is readable and with some reservations).
Left column
P.A. Brushikin
S.M. Savin
V.P. Surovzov
P.I. Kalashnikov
I.S Solovyev
S.A Mahotin
I.I.Shankin
?
N.M ?
A.V Saharov
and the right kolumn
?
?
?
?
I.I. Kustov
G.M Plazidevsky
A.KM Korogodin
N.E Soloyov
P.A. Hahanin
A.N Shostakov
I.N. Sedov
V.P Zhigiryev
Who they are or what was the occasion in 24.8.1908 I have no idea. The rest is up to you.
On the outside you can read 24 August 1908 and the names inside are (of what is readable and with some reservations).
Left column
P.A. Brushikin
S.M. Savin
V.P. Surovzov
P.I. Kalashnikov
I.S Solovyev
S.A Mahotin
I.I.Shankin
?
N.M ?
A.V Saharov
and the right kolumn
?
?
?
?
I.I. Kustov
G.M Plazidevsky
A.KM Korogodin
N.E Soloyov
P.A. Hahanin
A.N Shostakov
I.N. Sedov
V.P Zhigiryev
Who they are or what was the occasion in 24.8.1908 I have no idea. The rest is up to you.
Re: Cigarette Case Help
Hi birdman -
In Russia there was a certain culture or "fetish" around cigarette cases. Smoking mostly a male habit (although women also smoked - only less open) was celebrated by showing who you was and what you had. Friends or cumpanes donated each other whole cases, some applications with special meanings( an special evening, a favourite song or melody), engraved names of the friends or donators, military service, etc. Some cigarette cases tell complete stories.....
On (or in) some cigarette cases you can find photo frames to store the photo of some important person - mostly a woman - but other photos are known too.
Photo frames:
Other frequently used applications:
Regards
Zolotnik
In Russia there was a certain culture or "fetish" around cigarette cases. Smoking mostly a male habit (although women also smoked - only less open) was celebrated by showing who you was and what you had. Friends or cumpanes donated each other whole cases, some applications with special meanings( an special evening, a favourite song or melody), engraved names of the friends or donators, military service, etc. Some cigarette cases tell complete stories.....
On (or in) some cigarette cases you can find photo frames to store the photo of some important person - mostly a woman - but other photos are known too.
Photo frames:
Other frequently used applications:
Regards
Zolotnik
Re: Cigarette Case Help
Qtr.s thanks for the additional information.
I will work on completing a much more through picture taking survey. I will address your specific comment. I'm sure I can expand the marks you mention. I do not remember seeing any stamping marks on the other cover however I may have missed them or they may have been destroyed with later work done on the case.
No matter, the journey to find as much about the history of this case is what intrigues me.
Thanks for all the help. Any other suggestions will be appreciated.
Michael
I will work on completing a much more through picture taking survey. I will address your specific comment. I'm sure I can expand the marks you mention. I do not remember seeing any stamping marks on the other cover however I may have missed them or they may have been destroyed with later work done on the case.
No matter, the journey to find as much about the history of this case is what intrigues me.
Thanks for all the help. Any other suggestions will be appreciated.
Michael
Re: Cigarette Case Help
Qtr.s
Let me know if this picture gives you the view you are looking for, If not I will go back and get additional pictures. This is reworked an original picture to get this view.
If additional pictures are needed please let me know exactly what you need and I will see if I can capture it.
Let me know if this picture gives you the view you are looking for, If not I will go back and get additional pictures. This is reworked an original picture to get this view.
If additional pictures are needed please let me know exactly what you need and I will see if I can capture it.
Qrt.S wrote:It is a pity that the cigarette case is more or less destroyed. It is, anyway, made between 1899-1908. If you are interested, here are what is written on the outside and the names inside. I would also be interested in knowing what the are two Cyrillic letters behind the neck in the kokshnik mark (84). Kindly tell us or show a better close-up of the kokshnik mark only. I would as well be interested in knowing what marks are punched on the other half. Thank you in advance.
On the outside you can read 24 August 1908 and the names inside are (of what is readable and with some reservations).
Left column
P.A. Brushikin
S.M. Savin
V.P. Surovzov
P.I. Kalashnikov
I.S Solovyev
S.A Mahotin
I.I.Shankin
?
N.M ?
A.V Saharov
and the right kolumn
?
?
?
?
I.I. Kustov
G.M Plazidevsky
A.KM Korogodin
N.E Soloyov
P.A. Hahanin
A.N Shostakov
I.N. Sedov
V.P Zhigiryev
Who they are or what was the occasion in 24.8.1908 I have no idea. The rest is up to you.
Re: Cigarette Case Help
Sorry but no help. I have tried to enhance your photo without success. It is too blurry. Try to use your camera's macro function and a tripod. Then crop the picture to the mark only and enlarge it like this:
The arrow shows the letters I'm interested in. Alternatively tell me the letters. They are Cyrillic letters.
Thank you in advance.
The arrow shows the letters I'm interested in. Alternatively tell me the letters. They are Cyrillic letters.
Thank you in advance.
Re: Cigarette Case Help
I have a friend that has good camera equipment and these are the pictures we have been able to produce:Qrt.S wrote:Sorry but no help. I have tried to enhance your photo without success. It is too blurry. Try to use your camera's macro function and a tripod. Then crop the picture to the mark only and enlarge it like this:
The arrow shows the letters I'm interested in. Alternatively tell me the letters. They are Cyrillic letters.
Thank you in advance.
Let me know if these answer your question.
Thanks,
Michael
Re: Cigarette Case Help
Unfortunately it doesn't. I have an ordinary camera and have no difficulties in producing pictures like I showed. Please reread my instruction how to do it. You haven't done that. The alternative is that you use a good magnifier, look and tell me the letters. Thank you.