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joho · Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 30 Location: United Kingdom

Hi - I have a coin tankard, that looks Scandinavian in style, and the coins appear to be Danish. However I am unable to identify the maker. Also, I am confused in that the date engraved on the cover (1662) is earlier than the latest coin (1694). Does this mean that a plain tankard was converted into a coin tankard a later date. I would be grateful for any help.

Thanks
John

Hose_dk · Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:23 am Post subject:

or made later refferring to an earlier date.
The weight is 30 ½ lod and ½ quint.
Unze = 1/8 Mark = 1/16 skålpund = 31,25 g

Lod = ½ Unze = 1/32 skålpund = 15,61 g

Quintin = ¼ Lod = 1/128 skålpund = 3,91 g

ie weight is 477 gram - is that so?

Two possible (3) danish LS - Steffen Ludvigsen Lemmink - his mark is different - so I dont believ he is the one, but it could be a mark not in the book. the similarity is not that close - so no (he was born approx 1677 citienship september 8th 1699 dead 1745. Silversmith in Aalborg.

the other candidate - is from Tønder - Søren Lorentzen citienship approx 1690 dead 1727. His LS is also different - but again could be an unknown mark.
His mark is often confused with Severin Lorentzen 1708 to 1740. Silversmith in Flensborg. (danish at that time)
actually the flensborg man is my mostly local candidate. I have no picture of his mark - but the book says that his is often confused with the Tønder smith (so my guess is that etc.)
Rosenberg has no reference to this flensborg silversmith.

other candidate is around 1900 - many a 1600/1700 silver piece was made 1900 onwards to fill the gab - using old coins available at a cheap price in those days.

gammel2ft · Joined: 13 Jul 2009 Posts: 3 Location: Denmark

Hi John

The hallmark appears to be that of Anders Lucassen Steen in Bergen, Norway. He was active from 1655 to some time into the late 1600s (I cannot remember off hand).

It is probable that the coins have been inserted at a later date in order to make the tankard more 'sellable' 100-150 years ago.

Is it just a date engraved on the lid or are there letters or an armorial shield, too?

Qrt.S · Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:02 am Post subject:

Almost correct :-) but the name is: Lucas Andersen Steen in Bergen NO 1619-1658-

joho · Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 30 Location: United Kingdom

Hi Hose, Gammel and Qrt.s

Thanks for your replies. The lid with the date 1662 engraved, also has initials MMS . SMD. There is also a shield with a device engraved, a combination of an N and an H. I will take photograph and post it tomorrow. I think you are right that the coins were inserted at a later date and they have been fairly crudley put in. Also, I see that inside the back of the tankard are 3 protruding studs - would this be a peg tankard?

Hose - the weight is 560 grams.

Thanks again

John

Hose_dk · Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:40 am Post subject:

Did not check Norway - but I can see that match is perfect.
The difference in weight could very well be due the the fact that coins where added around 100 years ago.

Hose_dk · Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:43 am Post subject:

forgot D= datter (danish for daughter) S=søn (danish for son)

It is the initials of man and wife.

joho · Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 30 Location: United Kingdom

Hi Hose and Gammel

Here is a photo of the lid with the initials and the shield.

Hose I think you are right about the difference in the weights. The coins are of much thicker than the guage on the tankard. They protrude from the body and would account for the extra weight.

Regards
John

gammel2ft · Joined: 13 Jul 2009 Posts: 3 Location: Denmark

Hi John and Qrt.s

Qrt.s - you are absolutely right, I appologise. I did mean Lucas Andersen Steen, I always get the two mixed up.

To John, here are some excerpts of what the 'Store Norske Leksikon' (Great Norwegian Lexicon) says about Lucas Andersen Steen (my translation):

"... [Lucas Andersen] Steen became part of an international arts and crafts millieu which produced objects of high artistic value. [...] 25 known silver pieces made in Steen's work shop, much more than any other Norwegian silversmith from the same period. [...] His works bears witness to a close ties to the Danish silversmith society [...] The ornamentation used are from German and Dutch works on ornamentation. [...] No less than seven silver tankards with Steen's hallmark are known, and the largest of these is a masterpiece witin Norwegian silversmithing. It is a cylindrical tankard of 32 cm [12.6 inches] in height with a profiled lid and foot rim. The lid and foot rim are decorated with driven and cast ornamentation. the sides are decorated with engravings of prime quality, which is composed of leaves, flowers, figures, birds and insects. [...] The tankard is now in the Norwegian Arts and Crafts Museum in Oslo. [...] In addition to the seven tankards from Lucas Andersen Steen's work shop, we know of one drinking cup, a low handled bowl and a number of spoons of rennaissance type. [...] Steen's works are today antiques of very high regard and value."

I have also found a link with some of the works alluded to in the above text: http://www.primusweb.no/search.do?criteria=lucas+andersen+steen&owner=&_onlyWithPictures=&searchObjectType=Unknown

gammel2ft · Joined: 13 Jul 2009 Posts: 3 Location: Denmark

- by the way, John.

Are the coins soldered on to the outside of the tankard, or have they been inserted into the body of the tankard (i.e. holes having been cut out of the body to accomodate the coins)?

If they have simply been soldered onto the outside, then perhaps they could be removed and the tankard be given its original expression?

joho · Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 30 Location: United Kingdom

Hi Gammel

Thank you very much for the information. It is always satisfying to solve a silver puzzle especially when the silversmith is so well known.

Unfortunately the coins are cut right into the tankard so impossible to remove them. This work with the coins is also unfortunately not very well done - but still an impressive tankard.

John