Are these two small ladles from Estonia?

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
erundle
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Are these two small ladles from Estonia?

Postby erundle » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:48 pm

Looking for help identifying these two spoons (or small ladles).
We have inherited them from my husband's family, who lived in Prague for many generations.
They left in the mid-1930s, ahead of the invasion.
They had a huge collection of silver items from all over Europe, most of which I've been able to identify.
(I will be posting more images of other mystery items later tonight.)
I've spent hours trying to figure out these marks, which I believe indicate the spoons were made in Estonia, though the lion appears to be set in a square, rather than an oval, and the final two impressions are barely discernible.
Many thanks for sharing your expertise.

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Aguest
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Re: Are these two small ladles from Estonia?

Postby Aguest » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:44 pm

The 4 marks are the maker's mark, the town mark for London, the lion symbol is for 92.5% purity of silver, and the last date letter is possibly for 1764 but it is so worn I can't quite be sure, but 1764 is the best I can see :::

As for the maker, I have been trying to determine the best candidate, and hopefully someone will be able to determine who this "LL" in cursive (or "II" in cursive?) but this period of time is affected by the "Missing Small-Workers Registry" which is best described as follows (described by "The Buckler" an expert here):

"To summarise the situation on the missing registers Grimwade states (page 4) :-
"following the Plate Act of 1738, all makers had to register fresh marks differing from their previous ones.
Two new books were then commenced and used until 1758 of which unfortunately that for the smallworkers has been lost.
The next book for smallworkers in use till 1773 has survived, but that for large workers has been missing since at least 1863 ...."

Hence the oft seen references to "the Lost Registers" which are :-
Smallworkers 1738 - 1758
Largeworkers 1758 - 1773

We are lucky in that a list published in the Parliamentary Report of 1773 gives a list of the names virtually all makers at that date so many/most of the missing Largeworkers Regisisters silversmiths are known. Not so the missing Smallworkers Register. "

There might still be a solution for the maker, but it would require expertise above my knowledge, but the mystery could have a solution ::::

Aguest
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Re: Are these two small ladles from Estonia?

Postby Aguest » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:00 pm

Now that I see the shape of the date letter, it does seem more like 1757, which would be a letter B surrounded by a square punch with a little notch at the bottom of the letter B, so that would be a better candidate for the date, but it is very difficult to see the letter on the one ladle, and the other ladle seems to have completely obliterated the date letter :

So they are not from Estonia, they are from England, wish I could help with the maker but it's that small-workers registry that isn't helping the situation :

Would love to see any other pieces as well ::::

erundle
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:41 am

Re: Are these two small ladles from Estonia?

Postby erundle » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:34 am

WOW!!!
Thanks so much for this information!
I feel so silly that I didn't realize these were from England.
There is nothing else in the collection that's this old, so I just wasn't used to seeing the early version on the lion, and I didn't recognize the London town mark because I was looking at the imprint vertically rather than horizontally.
Brilliant!
I hope someone else here may have an idea about the LL maker's mark. It's the most legible mark on the spoons, but the least decipherable!

And I will post two other queries presently...

Sasropakis
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Re: Are these two small ladles from Estonia?

Postby Sasropakis » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:40 am

Could the makers mark be TT (upside down in the photo) for Thomas Tookey?

https://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/Mak ... omasTookey

Though I'm not sure how this would match with the date letter (which I can't really decipher).

silvermakersmarks
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Re: Are these two small ladles from Estonia?

Postby silvermakersmarks » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:03 am

Just beaten to it! Yes, it's TT for Thomas Tookey. This mark was registered in 1779 and, as there is no duty mark, it must date from 1779 to 1784; I suspect it's "f" for 1779.

Phil

erundle
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:41 am

Re: Are these two small ladles from Estonia?

Postby erundle » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:12 pm

Thank you both SO much! Many mysteries solved.
Very grateful for the information, and also excited to be in possession of these beautiful spoons, which are far older than I imagined.


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