Whatever it is...... ..its a good one!!!!!

What was this used for? - PHOTO REQUIRED
goldquartz
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:07 pm

Whatever it is...... ..its a good one!!!!!

Postby goldquartz » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:17 pm

came across this unusual piece of silver this past weekend. It looks like the base off something from medieval Hungary. (or something in that style although this has lots of age)chalice? reliquary? cross??? ....or maby just a really good ashtray :)

the 'cover' can be pinned into place in the 4 corners. What I would call the square recess or socket that is the "mystery" of the item measures approx. 3x3.25in and this is reflected in the medallion shaped base that is not round either.

the decoration is pierced and chased with scrollingleaves and inscribed with IHS XPS (christogram).

I was hoping that one of the members would enlighten me here

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goldquartz
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Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:07 pm

Re: Whatever it is...... ..its a good one!!!!!

Postby goldquartz » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:20 am

can anybody help me?

legrandmogol
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Re: Whatever it is...... ..its a good one!!!!!

Postby legrandmogol » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:17 am

I think it is a reliquary. There was probably wood, glass and cloth parts that are now missing that find in the center. It also looks like it is hallmarked in two spots. They look similar but could you post up close pics of both? It might help.

goldquartz
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Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:07 pm

Re: Whatever it is...... ..its a good one!!!!!

Postby goldquartz » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:10 pm

legrandmogol,
Thank you so much for taking the time and thought to help. I also believe it is the base of a reliquary and
I would be very interested to learn the maker and time period of the object. It does indeed appear much older then the 19th century to me but I have not handled as many old objects as I wish that I could for comparison. The marks seems similar to me and possibly in Cyrillic I have attempted a picture of both
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legrandmogol
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Re: Whatever it is...... ..its a good one!!!!!

Postby legrandmogol » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:50 pm

well since the Christogram uses Latin letters it is probably best to search countries that use the Latin alphabet first. The style of the mark looks 18th /17th century. The patina in the pics of your item looks recent but I think it is because of your camera's flash. I cannot quite place that mark though. I will keep looking but hopefully, somebody else will recognize it

legrandmogol
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Re: Whatever it is...... ..its a good one!!!!!

Postby legrandmogol » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:06 pm

Hi again, I tried looking around some more and I think your piece is 15th - 17th century and definitely from a Catholic country, I lean towards Spain and I lean more towards 15/16th century. But I should be clear I am not an expert or authority on these matters. There is a regular contributor, username Funkel who is very knowledgeable of Spanish silver. They would probably be better able to shed more light on the matter. As I said before though, I am pretty sure it is Catholic and I have seen evidence it could also be French or Italian.

Aguest
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Re: Whatever it is...... ..its a good one!!!!!

Postby Aguest » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:51 pm

I thought the hallmark looked like a gothic script for "Roi" (which means "King" or "Royal" in French?) and then I found this term "Argent-de-Roy" which refers to the "King's Standard" of French Silver :::

Here is a brief description taken from an authentic 15th century French Ring:

"The ring has silver content of 96% by XRF and this is consistent with the high quality French silver standard of the 14th-15th century, known as 'argent-le-roy' (king's silver"). "

Once again, I must emphasize that I am not an expert in this field, and perhaps the hallmark is not "Roi" or "Roy," but that is the best I can do.

( (hopefully one day they will make a cheap XRF machine that you can plug into a smart phone! That would be a useful tool indeed.) )

goldquartz
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:07 pm

Re: Whatever it is...... ..its a good one!!!!!

Postby goldquartz » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:49 am

I want the xrf app too!!

Thank you both for the great leads It is so much appreciated

And hope the other half turns up at the next estate sale :,,,,(

It really does look like the mark reads ROI so I will do my best to check into that

LCL1959
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:16 pm

Re: Whatever it is...... ..its a good one!!!!!

Postby LCL1959 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:41 pm

Hello
Very interesting piece you found, it could be the base of a gothic chalice or monstrance, possibly Spanish, Portuguese or Italian.
As for the halmark no clue at the moment.

Best regards

LCL1959

Traintime
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Re: Whatever it is...... ..its a good one!!!!!

Postby Traintime » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:13 pm

[Presumably non-commercial link] Thrown in for reference on ihs xp (chi rho) but no mention of the s: http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Christogram

Might anything in the design suggest Eastern Orthodoxy?

Traintime
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Re: Whatever it is...... ..its a good one!!!!!

Postby Traintime » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:49 pm

Reference to XPS "in sequential letters" inferring "Christus" mentioned here: https://en.m.wikiyy.com/w/index.php?tit ... wikiyy.com

Traintime
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Re: Whatever it is...... ..its a good one!!!!!

Postby Traintime » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:58 pm

The XPs trail leads back to France (??"roi"??), an inkwell, and a closed book: https://en.m.wikiyy.com/wiki/Godescalc_Evangelistary

legrandmogol
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Re: Whatever it is...... ..its a good one!!!!!

Postby legrandmogol » Thu May 02, 2019 10:37 pm

While thumbing through "Enciclopedia de la Plata Espanola y Virreinal Americana", pg 124, mark 263, I think I found a match for this mark. According to the book, it is 15th /16th century and from Cordoba Spain. The outline of the mark is different but the letters match up pretty nicely. Hopefully, anybody with a better understanding of Spanish silver marks can confirm this as I only have this book to go on.

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