Newport Trophy Hallmark

[StephenCWLL]

Hello,

I'm pretty sure I've nailed the ID of this trophy but I need a little help on the middle emblem below:



I've got that it was made in England and the g is for 1922 but the middle item, which is the shape of a shield with no distinguishable features, I'm not sure about. I know from the label on the base of the trophy that it was made by Charles Ince, Silversmiths of Newport. Is the middle item related to Wales or Newport?

[AG2012]

Hi,
The date is correct (1922).
The mark in the middle is leopard`s head for London Assay Office.
Regards

[StephenCWLL]

Hi,
The date is correct (1922).
The mark in the middle is leopard`s head for London Assay Office.
Regards

Thanks :)

Does that mean it wasn't made in Newport?

It would be Silver though wouldn't it, what with the Lion mark?

[AG2012]

Hello again,
Lion mark means sterling.Take a look here:
http://www.925-1000.com/british_marks.html
Is there maker`s mark ? Search the trophy, there should be maker`s mark somewhere.If identified we could determine where he worked.

[StephenCWLL]

Sadly the trophy is on display currently so can't access it until October.

The base of the trophy isn't on display, which is where I saw the Ince, Newport mention (see below) which had me thinking of Wales.

[AG2012]

Take a look here for CHARLES INCE 75, Bridge Street, Newport
http://925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... 0&start=80

[StephenCWLL]

Take a look here for CHARLES INCE 75, Bridge Street, Newport
http://925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... 0&start=80

Thanks :) I've subsequently heard that the London Assey Office stamp was sued where the makers didn't have their own stamp? I'd assume Charles Ince never got a stamp registered.

[silvermakersmarks]

Ince would most likely be the retailer. I think I see the remains of a sponsor's or maker's mark to the left of the hallmark but I can't work out what it might be just at the moment:



The London Assay Office mark used when there is no sponsor's mark registered is LAO (as well as the hallmark):



Phil

[AG2012]

London Assay Office was the closest to Newport, so Ince assayed silver in London.It does not mean they had no maker`s mark registered, although I have not seen one.
Regards

[StephenCWLL]

Possible that's a mark but I've looked at the trophy again closely and i'd be more inclined to think it's a random 'ware and tare' mark as the whole trophy is flooded in numerous distorted discoloration. I can't see anything significant elsewhere but can't get to the trophy's base at this moment in time.

I'm confused again :) The middle mark of the three; is it for London Assay Office or is LAO for that office? Or does it just depend?

[StephenCWLL]

London Assay Office was the closest to Newport, so Ince assayed silver in London.It does not mean they had no maker`s mark registered, although I have not seen one.
Regards

Ok, gotcha :)

[silvermakersmarks]

A London hallmark after 1890 has 4 components:
- the standard mark (lion passant for sterling)
- the uncrowned leopard's head for London
- the date letter
- the sponsor's mark

LAO stands in place of the sponsor's mark so is not something we need to consider in the case of the trophy; there should be a sponsor's mark somewhere which is why I suspected that it might be what I see to the left of the other 3 components of the hallmark.

I would just note that although Ince describes himself as a silversmith on the label it does not necessarily mean that he was a manufacturing silversmith.

[StephenCWLL]

A London hallmark after 1890 has 4 components:
- the standard mark (lion passant for sterling)
- the uncrowned leopard's head for London
- the date letter
- the sponsor's mark

LAO stands in place of the sponsor's mark so is not something we need to consider in the case of the trophy; there should be a sponsor's mark somewhere which is why I suspected that it might be what I see to the left of the other 3 components of the hallmark.

I would just note that although Ince describes himself as a silversmith on the label it does not necessarily mean that he was a manufacturing silversmith.

Ok. So not silver?

I'm getting more mixed up :)

Only thing I'm sure about now is 1922. In case of trophy, we know it's London, registered at London Assay Office and 1922. That's it? Ince may or may not have made it but was likely who sold it?

[AG2012]

Hello again,
Of course it`s silver - the standard mark (lion passant for sterling).
Assayed in London and Ince was probably a retailer.
Please. read carefully what`s written above, as well as links given for reference.
Regards

[StephenCWLL]

Hello again,
Of course it`s silver - the standard mark (lion passant for sterling).
Assayed in London and Ince was probably a retailer.
Please. read carefully what`s written above, as well as links given for reference.
Regards

Thanks :)

I thought when it said '4 components' that it meant one or the other regarding either there'd be a lion passant or a lion without a crown. I can't really see the crown in the one on the trophy so assumed it was "just" a lion, hence, just made in England.

It's far too easy to get confused. I try to read the various pages but still get confused :)

[silvermakersmarks]

The lion does not have a crown so don't bother to look for it. The leopard's head does not have a crown either, but it should look more like this:

Clearly the best part of a century of polishing has reduced the finer details to a blank outline.

We all started out confused and I apologise if what I posted increased your confusion. What I love about the British hallmarking system is the logical way it all fits together, and then to find that there are some very intriguing exceptions and quirks....