Silver Cup 1893 St. Petersburg/Pamir

[Alexis22]

May I have your help. Any idea what this is? It came from St. Petersburg, and seems related to the builders of the first Fort in the Pamir Mountainside.





If needed or someone is interested in have more detail pics.

[dognose]

Hi Alexis,

Welcome to the Forum.

The more images that you can supply, the better. We delight in seeing such photos and if you can embed them, all the better, as many people will not click on thumbnails.

Trev.

[Alexis22]

[Alexis22]

[Alexis22]

and what are these blue and red inlays are made from?

[AG2012]

In memory of the stay and the construction of the first fortification on Pamir in 1893.
The name of the fortification was Pamir post.
The military engineer was Colonel Nikolai Nikitich Moses. The commander of Pamir detachment unit was Captain A. Snesarev. Earlier, in this place, in the year 1892-93 stood the fortification Shadzhansky post. The commander was captain of the General Staff of P. Kuznetsov and the engineer was captain Serebrennikov. New construction works fortified already existing military post and built new barracks (most likely enameled red areas).
These are preliminary data; it will take time to decipher signatures and abbreviations, i.e. was he the commanding officer or the commander of engineering unit?
Regards

[AG2012]

Red and blue areas are enamel, of course.
Have inspected the marks more carefully. It seems somebody wanted to ruin this beautiful piece of history by adding fake Khlebnikov mark.
That`s my opinion but the mark is really very suspicious.There are very knowledgeable contributors here and I am sure there will be a serious discussion.
In short, genuine cup but fake Khlebnikov.
(Cannot comment Assayer`s mark right now, but it`s Moscow, not St Petersburg).
Btw. some of your pictures tend to disappear.Embedding them would be nice.

[AG2012]

Have emedded the image of the mark.
Fakers should be prosecuted, probably not for the profit they make, but if you ask me, for damage they do to museum pieces. Whoever made this cup was an excellent silversmith, but his name was erased (scratches are still visible) and overstruck with very poor Khlebnikov mark.

[Alexis22]

I will repost the pics later...my Russian is not so good but a friend ofrom me showed me this....I don t think that is fake I would say someone just tried to clean it...

Admin edit, read our forum rules; no links to auction sites.

[Alexis22]

and by the way it travelled from St. Petersburg to Germany after the Bolschewiki and survived several wars then. For that I think it's in good condition.

[AG2012]

It`s not a fake; Khlebnikov mark is a fake. Traces of zealous cleaning or whatever are not relevant;Khlebnikov mark cannot look like this.
I am surprised they did not strike Faberge mark, but this is a vandalism, too.

[Goldstein]

Listen to AG2012 -
he is spot on and gave you all the possible informations and more! A "Thank you very much" would be the least...

Goldstein

[Dad]

Hi.

Inscription near the bottom of silver glass: "Начальн. Рангк. поста А.С.Шнырову"
In a full size: "Начальнику Рангкульского поста А.С.Шнырову"

A specially made for memory. For participants of construction of the first fortress of the Russian Empire on Pamir in Highland-Badakhshan area.
This silver glass is made for the chief of the Rangkulsky post (like check point) of Russian Border Guards, Cossack sotnik (like senturion) A. S. Shnyrov.

There is nothing unusual, that this glass is made at Khlebnikov's factory. Khlebnikov punch looks correct.

But I have seen one mistake: one of colleagues on a glass - V. A. Zaytsev. Actually he is V. N. Zaytsev (Vasily Nikolaevich)

http://www.a-e-snesarev.ru/uzryutova.html

http://a-e-snesarev.ru/novosti.html (25.05.2015 N.B.)

[Goldstein]

Hi -
just to get an own opinion - Khlebnikov was quite able to use neat and legible stamps! He was no drunkard or fool - he was one of the best!

The OP´s photo:


Photos from my collection:



Goldstein

[AG2012]

Rule 1. Court supplier mark always well struck with every detail clearly visible
Rule 2. Well aligned letters and no slanting
In a word, I completely agree with Goldstein and will not engage any more.
Best wishes

[AG2012]

Genuine marks were too big, but who cares. What`s that letter? Who cares, people cannot read Russian anyway.

[Goldstein]

Hi AG2012 -

don´t be frustrated! You can lead a horse to the water - but you can not make it drink!
I for my part estimate the time and the knowledge you invest in your contributions very much. There is always something to learn!

Goldstein