Maker a Mystery To Me

venus · Post by **venus** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:16 pm

Have been unable to trace the maker on this three footed bowl,and will appreciate any help. The makers mark is difficult to make out in the pictures and aslso when I am holding it the center one is hard to figure out. The top mark is a crown. (The crown has a cross as the center.) Under this are the initials C S. Between the C and S is a shield. In the shield it looks like some kind of thistle.

Post by **2209patrick** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:43 pm

Sorry to say I have been unable to pin down the manufacturer who used this mark. Here's a clearer picture in case someone else knows.

There is a theory, not mine, that the letter that appears to be a C might be a G. A company called Tilden-Thurber used a crest with lions on each side mark, but without the letters.

When the Tilden-Thurber Company, Providence Rhode Island, opened their doors in 1856 the sign above the window said "Gorham Co. and Brown". Gorham Thurber was one of the officers of the company. Gorham Thurber had also formed a partnership with John Gorham (1850-1852) called Gorham & Thurber. This was a predecessor of the Gorham Manufacturing Company.
Dorothy Rainwater's book states "Working with the Gorham Manufacturing Company, Tilden-Thurber furnished a complete sterling silver service for the Battleship Rhode Island, later placed on display in the State House. They also furnished the silver service for the Crusier Providence, later exhibited at Brown University." So, apparently, Thurber And Gorham maintained close ties into the mid 20th century.
Just an interesting footnote. I saw a picture of this same mark on the presentation silver pieces of the ship USS Wilkes-Barre.

Regards,
Pat.

wev · Post by **wev** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:22 pm

Gorham Thurber and John Gorham were first cousins, which no doubt reinforced the relationship.

venus · Post by **venus** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:18 am

Interesting information Pat and Wev. I will follow those leads and see where they go. Thanks very much.

Post by **dragonflywink** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:03 pm

Siggy, believe you're on the wrong track here, have run across this mark several times, have virtually no doubt that it belongs to a 20th century American silverplate manufacturer. The pieces seem to be of nice quality and weight, possible they might be banquet/hotelware. Spent years as a bartender for upscale caterers, hotels, and country clubs, they often had lovely plated holloware with marks that I couldn't ID.

Cheryl ;o)

siggy1 · Post by **siggy1** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:38 pm

I appreciate your comment draggonflywink. You may be correct, but from the tiny icon of a hallmark shown, it looks like two animals (lions?) standing on hind feet inside a shield under a crown. Maybe it is actually an R. Do you, or anyone out there, have a book of Hallmarks of German Silver with this hallmark in it so that we might compare it to our mark? It must be very rare or scarce since no one seems to know anything about it. I've only seen the mark once but the individual had no idea of the maker. What makes you think they are American? The lions don't look like any I have ever seen before. They actually look more like rodents to me.
Thanks,
siggy1

Post by **dragonflywink** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:19 pm

There are numerous unascribed marks on silver and silverplate, that doesn't make them rare. This trademark actually shows up quite a bit and simply hasn't been documented as of yet, might be a small company or possibly a division of a large manufacturer. The fanciful design, based on earlier silver marks, is typically American and similar marks often show up on pieces considered "Sheffield reproductions" by their makers.

Cheryl ;o)

Post by **admin** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:29 pm

Hi Siggy,
If it were silver, there would be a mark of some sort indicate it. In most countries this is dictated by law, wherever it is not law, the manufacturers take great pains to clearly mark their items as silver because it is sensible marketing to do so. They want to assure their customers that they are getting something valuable for their money.
This piece has only a maker's mark and that is something most often seen on silverplate. Secondly it is an incuse style of stamp, not a cameo as most hallmarks are, this technique of marking is most commonly seen on 20th century American silverplate. There are many other indicators, but lacking time, I'll cut to the chase. I've hunted silver for many years, in the process, I've seen and handled a number of pieces with this same mark and they were all silverplate.
In America (in the last century), there were no less than five manufacturers of silverplate operating under the name of "Crown Silver". This mark is almost assuredly an unrecorded trademark of one of these firms.

Regards, Tom

siggy1 · Post by **siggy1** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:31 pm

Thanks again for the info, Cheryl. Guess I'd better keep looking.

siggy

siggy1 · Post by **siggy1** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:54 pm

Hello Tom,

I pretty much assumed that the tray is silverplate because of lack of a hallmark that can identify it as silver. I have seen this same pattern (but not the mark which I've only seen once) on several pieces, and as I recall, I believe that they were all silverplate.

Thanks,
siggy

Post by **2209patrick** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:26 pm

Agree with Cheryl and Tom that it's probably an American mark.
Siggy, just to let you know that it's possible to identify these crazy marks, here's one we found. Over a year ago on another board someone asked about a silver mark that's listed in Dorothy Rainwater's book as unascribed.

Other posters thought it was a British silverplate mark from it's appearance. Turned out to be an American company famous for their cigarette lighters. Not too many people knew they also produced silverplated holloware, candlesticks, etc.
Evans Case Company (1922-1960), North Attleboro, Massachusetts.

Pat.