These marks are on an older Moscow beaker. Later Milda for Latvia is on the right but what is L or J?
Happy New Year
Latvia
Re: Latvia
I have explained this some years ago but cannot find the thread as for now. Anyway, It is a Gothic L (abbr. for Lombard) designated for an unmarked silver object to be sold at auction or at official public sale. It was implemented in Latvia in 1922-(1940). It guarantees a minimum legal standard of gold 585/1000 or silver 875/1000.
The same mark can be found on Russian objects as from 1908 to 1927 but then it is a Сyrillic L (Л).
This "simple" Latvian Milda mark was in use 1922-1940 on silver and gold objects. In 1927 Milda got a more sophisticated outlook. Both marks were used alongside to the bitter end in 1940.
The same mark can be found on Russian objects as from 1908 to 1927 but then it is a Сyrillic L (Л).
This "simple" Latvian Milda mark was in use 1922-1940 on silver and gold objects. In 1927 Milda got a more sophisticated outlook. Both marks were used alongside to the bitter end in 1940.
Re: Latvia
Hi-
since the introduction of a new moneterian system in the year 1922, a new stamp order for precious metals was introduced,, these order applied uniformly for Latvia. 1925 the stamppicture was modified and since 1927 was struck in this form. On the right the finess was marked, on silver usually with "875" according to the metric system. This fineness corresponded wit the so far valid Russian proof. Often the valid finess mark was expanded by a further mark, a capital L - This two puches also were used to rehallmark previously made silver work in Riga.
Qrt.s confuses something concerning the Letter Л on Russian silver. New Years Eve; Wotka, Wotka.....
Source: Baltisches Silber, A. Leistikov, p 306-307
Regards
Zolotnik
since the introduction of a new moneterian system in the year 1922, a new stamp order for precious metals was introduced,, these order applied uniformly for Latvia. 1925 the stamppicture was modified and since 1927 was struck in this form. On the right the finess was marked, on silver usually with "875" according to the metric system. This fineness corresponded wit the so far valid Russian proof. Often the valid finess mark was expanded by a further mark, a capital L - This two puches also were used to rehallmark previously made silver work in Riga.
Qrt.s confuses something concerning the Letter Л on Russian silver. New Years Eve; Wotka, Wotka.....
Source: Baltisches Silber, A. Leistikov, p 306-307
Regards
Zolotnik
Re: Latvia
Please Zolotnik, don't teach me Russian hallmarks and their meaning. What is in your opinion the meaning of the Russian Л compared with the Latvian Gothic L?
Re: Latvia
Hi, to whom it may concern.
From; World Hallmarks Volume I Europe 19th-20st Centuries
Happy 2015, and be nice to each other in the New Year!
Best wishes,
Oel.
From; World Hallmarks Volume I Europe 19th-20st Centuries
Happy 2015, and be nice to each other in the New Year!
Best wishes,
Oel.
Re: Latvia
Just read my given source - you have the book - use translator if you understand no German. A. Leistikow know her metier!
I do not understand your unpolite behavior - to muddle up is nothing serious - it often happened also to me - i am always happy when someone points me in the right direction.
Just a refresher. Sorce:Troepolskaja. p 14 and 21, you also have this book.
By the way - I expect an apology!
Regards
zolotnik
I do not understand your unpolite behavior - to muddle up is nothing serious - it often happened also to me - i am always happy when someone points me in the right direction.
Just a refresher. Sorce:Troepolskaja. p 14 and 21, you also have this book.
By the way - I expect an apology!
Regards
zolotnik
Re: Latvia
Exaclty dear Oel, take as well a look at pages 205 and 255-256 in the same book. Here comes the rest:
The Latvian L has exactly the same meaning as the Russian Cyrillic L ("Л"). In addition there is a third mark meaning the same. That is the Polish owl mark. As I already stated a "Lombard" mark (historical: bank, pawn shop..). All marks are punched on objects that were put on public sale by officials, pawn shops, banks, private organizations etc. to guarantee the legal fineness. These organizations presented the object for mentioned reasons to the assay office in order to have them marked legally. They could then sell them or put them on official auction.
It was a as well a guarantee for minimum fineness standard on unmarked objects tested by the assay office. It was forbidden to sell unmarked gold or silver objects in Russia. In this case the official hallmark was punched with the "Л". It was by law forbidden for the assay office to punch the hallmark if the object didn't already have a maker's mark. If only a hallmark was punched it indicated import. To avoid misunderstandings the "L" was punched beside the hallmark indicating the object being Russian made irrespective of the missing maker's mark. A private person who wished to have an object in his possession tested for silver could ask the assay office to punch a sole Л only. It could, however, not be sold officially but today you might stumble into such an object, unlikely but possible.
The text above tells a bit more what the text below states. In general the main idea is the same
Both marks main purpose is to guarantee legal minimum fineness in both Russia and Latvia.
What Leistikow writes on page 307 in Baltisches Silber regarding Latvia is correct but only a part of the whole story. That I have told above!
PS Leistikov??? Annelore Leistikow
The Latvian L has exactly the same meaning as the Russian Cyrillic L ("Л"). In addition there is a third mark meaning the same. That is the Polish owl mark. As I already stated a "Lombard" mark (historical: bank, pawn shop..). All marks are punched on objects that were put on public sale by officials, pawn shops, banks, private organizations etc. to guarantee the legal fineness. These organizations presented the object for mentioned reasons to the assay office in order to have them marked legally. They could then sell them or put them on official auction.
It was a as well a guarantee for minimum fineness standard on unmarked objects tested by the assay office. It was forbidden to sell unmarked gold or silver objects in Russia. In this case the official hallmark was punched with the "Л". It was by law forbidden for the assay office to punch the hallmark if the object didn't already have a maker's mark. If only a hallmark was punched it indicated import. To avoid misunderstandings the "L" was punched beside the hallmark indicating the object being Russian made irrespective of the missing maker's mark. A private person who wished to have an object in his possession tested for silver could ask the assay office to punch a sole Л only. It could, however, not be sold officially but today you might stumble into such an object, unlikely but possible.
The text above tells a bit more what the text below states. In general the main idea is the same
Both marks main purpose is to guarantee legal minimum fineness in both Russia and Latvia.
What Leistikow writes on page 307 in Baltisches Silber regarding Latvia is correct but only a part of the whole story. That I have told above!
PS Leistikov??? Annelore Leistikow
Re: Latvia
Hi All,
Please do not make it too complicated by showing text in Cyrillic, most of us can not read & understand and have to translate. We accepted English to be our forum language.
Herewith the Latvia minimum standard mark and the Poland owl mark or Lombard mark compared to the Russian used item mark:
Latvia stylized L mark
Poland Owl mark
Russian Л
Used Item marks Any item that was previously owned and brought back onto the market through venues like auction, pawn shops, and financial institutions, required verification before it could be offered for resale. The cut-corner triangle mark was introduced during World War I and indicated a low standard item that was typically sold on consignment for a commission. The other mark
Stylized L for Latvia; guaranteed minimum fineness .875 for silver, Owl or Lombard mark for Poland; to confirm the validity of domestic hallmarks not below minimum 800/1000 or 750/1000 (1963). And last but not least the Russian Л .; to simply guarantee the lowest Russian standard has been met.
Nice and simple to understand, cheers a little more vodka to celebrate the old before we pop the bubbles to celebrate the new.
Regards,
Oel.
From; World Hallmarks Volume I Europe 19th-20st Centuries
Please do not make it too complicated by showing text in Cyrillic, most of us can not read & understand and have to translate. We accepted English to be our forum language.
Herewith the Latvia minimum standard mark and the Poland owl mark or Lombard mark compared to the Russian used item mark:
Latvia stylized L mark
Poland Owl mark
Russian Л
Used Item marks Any item that was previously owned and brought back onto the market through venues like auction, pawn shops, and financial institutions, required verification before it could be offered for resale. The cut-corner triangle mark was introduced during World War I and indicated a low standard item that was typically sold on consignment for a commission. The other mark
Stylized L for Latvia; guaranteed minimum fineness .875 for silver, Owl or Lombard mark for Poland; to confirm the validity of domestic hallmarks not below minimum 800/1000 or 750/1000 (1963). And last but not least the Russian Л .; to simply guarantee the lowest Russian standard has been met.
Nice and simple to understand, cheers a little more vodka to celebrate the old before we pop the bubbles to celebrate the new.
Regards,
Oel.
From; World Hallmarks Volume I Europe 19th-20st Centuries
Re: Latvia
In general Oel's summary is correct but the Russian "Л" has a much lager meaning than WH's text indicates. It is not only "simply..."!
Unfortunately there quite a lot of "mistakes and errors" in the respective book.
Unfortunately there quite a lot of "mistakes and errors" in the respective book.
Re: Latvia
Hi All,
The book; World Hallmarks Europe 19th to 21st Centuries is the best book at the moment on the market and it has some minor errors.
The book is the result of the cooperative efforts between the authors and many European assay offices, including members of the International Association of Assay Offices (IAAO) and the Hallmarking Convention, all working with the intent of raising the level of accuracy in available hallmarking information. The verification of research has resulted in the vetting of nearly every chapter by its corresponding country’s assay office or government officials to ensure the information is accurate.
Yes, and the book is in simple English, up to date, very good but not perfect; Let him who is without sin cast the first Stone.
Oel.
The book; World Hallmarks Europe 19th to 21st Centuries is the best book at the moment on the market and it has some minor errors.
The book is the result of the cooperative efforts between the authors and many European assay offices, including members of the International Association of Assay Offices (IAAO) and the Hallmarking Convention, all working with the intent of raising the level of accuracy in available hallmarking information. The verification of research has resulted in the vetting of nearly every chapter by its corresponding country’s assay office or government officials to ensure the information is accurate.
Yes, and the book is in simple English, up to date, very good but not perfect; Let him who is without sin cast the first Stone.
Oel.