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Any information please about this Austrian sugar box?

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:56 pm
by PBF
Hello, I inherited this from my maternal grandfather, who was born in Tarnow, Poland in 1898 but moved to Vienna, Austria in his teen years.
I think it is a sugar box?
Can anybody please confirm what type of box it is and also help me identify the year of manufacture and by which designer or company (I am assuming in Vienna?)
Thank you very much for any help!
Philip
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Re: Any information please about this Austrian sugar box?

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:30 pm
by PBF
... also, since I failed to mention this... I am new here and yes, I did read the forum rules, but I was not sure if including the image with the dimensions/weight would be useful in any way or frowned upon, so I apologize in advance if I should not have included that.
Thank you.
Philip

Re: Any information please about this Austrian sugar box?

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:45 am
by huszas76
Wien, 185?, Christian Sander.
Best regards!
KrisztiƔn

Re: Any information please about this Austrian sugar box?

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:43 am
by AG2012
Hi,
There was also Christian Sander senior who worked in late 18th early 19th century.
The box could be 183 ? (see enlarged image of the mark).
It is Zuckerdose (sugar box), Biedermeier period.
Sometimes wrongly described by dealers as etrog box because Judaica is lucrative,
But etrog box should bear distinctive signs of Jewish tradition to meet the definition.
Regards

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Re: Any information please about this Austrian sugar box?

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:41 pm
by huszas76
Dear AG2012!
You must be right, the latest date of Christian sander with this mark from 1846.
Best regards!
KrisztiƔn

Re: Any information please about this Austrian sugar box?

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:00 pm
by PBF
Thank you both for that helpful information. I will do some research into Christian Sander Sr.
I love this box... only wish that the key had survived as well.
I very much appreciate your kindness.
Philip

Re: Any information please about this Austrian sugar box?

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:20 pm
by AG2012
The lock is very simple and advisable to be cleaned (often rusted).
It is not fixed to silver, just inserted behind silver rectangular plate.
The key, being simple, is easily found.
Regards

Re: Any information please about this Austrian sugar box?

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:39 pm
by PBF
AG2012 wrote:The lock is very simple and advisable to be cleaned (often rusted).
It is not fixed to silver, just inserted behind silver rectangular plate.
The key, being simple, is easily found.
Regards


That is good to know! Would I look for an existing key from that period and have it recut to match this lock, or how would you suggest getting a proper key?
I am located in a suburb of Washington DC but am also sometimes in New York City.
I will be coming to Zurich and Vienna in mid October.
Thank you very much.
Philip

Re: Any information please about this Austrian sugar box?

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:53 pm
by PBF
Hello, is there anybody who might provide some advice on how best to go about finding a key or getting a key made to fit the lock on this Austrian sugar box?
I have tried on eBay but with no luck so far, but perhaps I am not searching correctly.
I will be in Zurich and Vienna next week, so could also look there... any tips would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you,
Philip

Help please re: key for Biedermeier Austrian sugar box?

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:49 pm
by PBF
Hello, is there anybody who might provide some advice please on how best to go about finding a key or getting a key made to fit the lock on this Austrian silver sugar box that was passed down from my late grandfather?
Another poster on this forum suggested that the box is by Christian Sander, Sr, made in 1830 - 1839 in Vienna.
I have tried to find any similar key on eBay but with no luck so far, and I have also sent email to Dorotheum and Wolfgang Bauer in Vienna, but was not able to get any help from them.
I will be in Zurich and in Vienna next week, so I could look there... any tips would be greatly appreciated!
I also frequently get to New York City (I am located in the Washington DC area)
Or maybe getting a key just is not possible?
Thank you very much for any ideas,
Philip Fleet

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Re: Help please re: key for Biedermeier Austrian sugar box?

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:53 pm
by PBF
and you can see the keyhole and internal lockbox better here...

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Re: Help please re: key for Biedermeier Austrian sugar box?

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:21 pm
by Sasropakis
I believe a professional locksmith can make a key for the lock, i.e. not just a copy of an existing key (which you don't have) but a new key made according to the lock. At least this kind of answer was found in some Finnish locksmith's FAQ.

Re: Any information please about this Austrian sugar box?

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:20 pm
by AG2012
The lock itself is inserted behind the plate made of silver.The plate slides to reveal the lock, but here there are two balls I am not familiar with.Possibly screws, but not sure.
Anyway, the lock case is never soldered and should be opened easily.The locks are very simple in those sugar boxes and any key fitting the keyhole will open it.
regards

Re: Any information please about this Austrian sugar box?

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:45 pm
by PBF
Thank you Sasropakis and AG2012!
I appreciate that help.
Philip

Re: Any information please about this Austrian sugar box?

Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:53 am
by gsmoggy
Hi PBF
it is interesting that the lion has a key in his mouth,does this key come out of his mouth?
If not I would have a copy of that key made for the box.

Just a thought that may be of interest.

Regards Guido.