HUGE Urn Pitcher & Underplate...Hanau Silver or Much Older??

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
Tipton444
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:26 pm

HUGE Urn Pitcher & Underplate...Hanau Silver or Much Older??

Postby Tipton444 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:04 pm

Hello all,

My good friend and I were lucky enough to come across an absolutely incredible solid silver urn, or pitcher, with the matching underplate, and it has some very old silver hallmarks on the bottom, as well as on the neck of the urn. I actually found a demitasse cup and saucer that I posted about a couple weeks ago, and that is how I learned all about Hanau silver and the psuedo hallmarks the German companies used, so if I didn't learn that then I would have never bought the pitcher! I can't seem to figure out the hallmarks on these two pieces, and I'm not sure if they are actually Hanau silver or much, much older... since the psuedo hallmarks were purposely meant to imitate or resemble older silver. I'm guessing it's a Hanau piece and not something from the 1700's but you never know! Hopefully someone can tell me here. I did find the first hallmark that matched to one of the many hallmarks listed for J.D. Schleissner & Sohne's. What do the other two stand for? Are these two pieces indeeed made by J.D. Schleissner & Sohne? Also, what purity of silver did they use (I'm guessing its 800, and it tests well). Sorry about the crappy quick pictures! Thank you all

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AG2012
contributor
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Re: HUGE Urn Pitcher & Underplate...Hanau Silver or Much Older??

Postby AG2012 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:11 pm

Hi,
J.D.Schleissner and Sons, Hanau.
https://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_hanau_marks_01.html

See s454

Regards

AG2012
contributor
Posts: 3267
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Re: HUGE Urn Pitcher & Underplate...Hanau Silver or Much Older??

Postby AG2012 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:20 pm

Hanau silversmiths used various combinations of pseudo and fantasy marks.Usually only one match is enough for positive identification.
Most of their production is .800 unless made for export to Britain and marked as sterling (.925) import marks.
There is no doubt about J.D. Schleissner & Sohne in this case of ``Renaissance silver``.

Tipton444
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:26 pm

Re: HUGE Urn Pitcher & Underplate...Hanau Silver or Much Older??

Postby Tipton444 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:47 pm

AG Thank you so much for the help!! Glad to hear it :)

Tipton444
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:26 pm

Re: HUGE Urn Pitcher & Underplate...Hanau Silver or Much Older??

Postby Tipton444 » Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:48 pm

Hey AG, after cleaning some dirt and grime off both pieces, I found some hallmarks I never saw before! It says "KREMOS ROMA 800." After doing some very basic research, Kremos produced silver in Italy (obviously hence the Roma mark), and I guess he was even partnered with the famous Bvlgari at first. Now, why would there be hallmarks for both J.D.Schleissner and Sons, of Hanau, Germany, and Kremos of Italy on the same pieces of silver? Was this a collaboration between the two companies? Maybe J.D. Schleissner & Sons exported their silver to Italy and Kremos had a store? I figured you might be able to help me out AG! Thanks so much


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AG2012
contributor
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Re: HUGE Urn Pitcher & Underplate...Hanau Silver or Much Older??

Postby AG2012 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:24 am

Hello again,
Demetrio Kremos of Rome was importer and retailer of Hanau silver. Here is another example of
B.Neresheimer & Sohne, Hanau mark with "KREMOS ROMA 800." 
Compare with perfect match with Neresheimer number s 513 here:
https://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_hanau_marks_01.html


Unscrupulous dealers try to exploit early partnership of D. Kremos and Sotirio Bulgari attributing ``Kremos`` pieces (especially silver jewellery) to Bulgari.
Kremos did make nice silver,but imported Hanau silver was of superior quality and heavier gauge.

Regards


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Tipton444
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:26 pm

Re: HUGE Urn Pitcher & Underplate...Hanau Silver or Much Older??

Postby Tipton444 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:37 am

Very interesting! Thank you for showing me another example. Hanau silver has been very fun to learn. I appreciate all the help!

oel
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Location: The Netherlands

Re: HUGE Urn Pitcher & Underplate...Hanau Silver or Much Older??

Postby oel » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:19 pm

Herewith my box marked Kremos.

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Silver snuff or pill box, oval form, cast and chased with panel depicting two musicians in a classical landscape with a cartouche border. Gilt interior and hinged lid. 3"x 2,6". Tested 925/000 and marked; Kremos with unclear pseudo marks, perhaps for J.D. Schleissner & Sohne S449 & S463.
Demetrio Kremos a Macedonian silversmith is mentioned in the book Bulgari written by Daniela Mascetti, Amanda Triossi ISBN-13 978-0-78920-945-0


Peter.

Tipton444
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:26 pm

Re: HUGE Urn Pitcher & Underplate...Hanau Silver or Much Older??

Postby Tipton444 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:09 pm

Very cool! Great box, that's a piece I'd put in my collection :) Surprised that one is 925 but likely made in Hanau?


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