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Help needed!! German marks ?

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:41 pm
by joho
Dear All. I am hoping someone can identify the marks on the base of this round silver box. It has a pull off lid surmounted with a cast pear with leaves. The box is about 7cm high and 6cm in diameter. Weighs 105 grams. Two of the marks look as though they could be spread eagle wings but I can't be sure. From one angle the other mark looks a little like a leopard's head, but I don't think so. From the opposite angle it is completely different! The base has a few dents and bruises which distort the pictures. I am trying first on the German Silver site but I might well be wrong on this. To me the box looks late 18th or early 19th century. A long shot, but hopefully someone can help. Many thanks. John

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Re: Help needed!! German marks ?

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:05 pm
by AG2012
Hi,
To me, it looks like Venice Assay Office (St.Mark winged lion).
Images of the marks are too small,though.
Better close up might help.
Rregards

Re: Help needed!! German marks ?

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:29 pm
by joho
Thanks, AG. Will get a close-up pic of the marks in the morning.
Regards
John

Re: Help needed!! German marks ?

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:04 am
by joho
Here are a few more pics of the marks. Kind regards
John

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Re: Help needed!! German marks ?

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:53 am
by AG2012
Hello again,
For Venice marks see here:
http://www.silvercollection.it/VENICEHALLMARKS.html

That`s all I can suggest.Cannot recognize ``leopard`s head`` and there is only partially struck letter.
Regards

Re: Help needed!! German marks ?

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:17 pm
by joho
Thanks AG. Much appreciated.

Regards

Re: Help needed!! German marks ?

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:48 am
by joho
Dear Admin

Would it be possible to move this to the Other Countries forum. Many thanks

John

Re: Help needed!! German marks ?

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:04 am
by dognose
Hi John,

As requested.

Trev.

Re: Help needed!! German marks ?

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:55 am
by joho
Thanks Trev!

Re: Help needed!! German marks ?

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:38 am
by amena
Hi Joho
I thank you for your trust, but I have not spoken in your post because Ag 2012 had already given a comprehensive answer with which I fully agree: it is the lion of St. Mark struck twice, as is often found.
I could only add that it might be interesting to see better the other mark that is very reminiscent of the hallmark of the papal state in the eighteenth century. If it were, it would be a bit strange, but not impossible.
There is also a trace of a further brand that seems too partial to be identifyed it, but a photo does not hurt.
Reagrds
Amena

Re: Help needed!! German marks ?

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:13 am
by joho
Hi Amena

Yes, AG2012's comprehensive answer was a great help. It got me to Venice. I am sure that without it I would still be looking north of the Alps!!

Here are a couple more pics. I don't think they show anything more, but as you say a photo does not hurt.

By the way, is it possible to determine the approximate age by the style of the lion of St Marks hallmarks on the box?

Many thanks
John
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Re: Help needed!! German marks ?

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:01 am
by amena
I'm sorry but I can not read this stamp.
It resembles the keys of St. Peter under the liturgical umbrella, but it is not; moreover it would be too small, compared to the St. Mark's lion. It could be one of the many marks of unknown silversmiths or something else I do not know.
As for the "moleca", the hallmark of the Venice mint, it was used until 1810 and it is very difficult to deduce a date, also because it is very worn out.
From the style I would say end of the eighteenth or early nineteenth century, but it is only a personal opinion.
I'm sorry I can not be more helpful.
Best regards
Amena

Re: Help needed!! German marks ?

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:52 am
by joho
Thank you Amena and AG 2012. You have both been a great help and I have learned something new!

Regards
John