Silver spoon maker

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
peter netsua
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Silver spoon maker

Postby peter netsua » Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:13 pm

Can someone please tell me the origin of this silver spoon. I'm fairly sure it's French but I would like to know the maker and, if possible, the date of manufacture. Many thanks in anticipation

Peter

Image
Image

Doos
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Postby Doos » Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:01 pm

Hi,

I think it's 18th century Suisse (town of Zofingen).

peter netsua
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Postby peter netsua » Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:47 am

Thankyou doos. Is there any website devoted to Swiss hall marks. I have searched with due diligence but without success. Also would the name Vettiner tie in as a Swiss maker
Peter

Doos
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Postby Doos » Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:20 pm

Hi Peter, I found the town mark in my Tardy "Poinçons d'argent".
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/091140 ... E&n=283155

stecci
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Postby stecci » Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:00 am

Hi Peter

this silver spoon it's from Lausanne (Switzerland)

the maker it's
Papus & Datun (Elie Papus, 1713 - 1793, & Pierre-Henri Datun, 1729-1803)
the some Manufacture 1760 - 1793

stecci

peter netsua
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Postby peter netsua » Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:40 am

Hi Stecci
Many many thanks for your info. I am amazed to get feedback a year down the line, but extremely grateful

regards

Peter

blakstone
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Postby blakstone » Thu May 28, 2009 10:48 pm

Recent research has revealed that this mark, long attributed to Papus & Dautun, actually belongs to an entirely different Lausanne maker: Jean-Philippe Delacour (1768-aft. 1824).

He was the son of silversmith Pierre Delacour, and apprenticed 1780/81 to Philippe Vernet (ca. 1748-1794). He established his own shop around 1790, but would inherit his master’s tools (and presumably his business) after the death Vernet’s widow, Françoise Rapillard, around 1809. Delacour retired sometime between 1814 and 1824, although his son, Marc-Philippe Delacour (1802-1842) would also become a silversmith, working ca. 1830-1842.

Delacour was an excellent maker, and the high-quality of his Empire-era work has very much contributed to continued its attribution to Papus & Dautun. However, a careful study of the subtle differences between the late 18th century work of Papus & Dautun (working ca. 1760-1793) and the early 19th century work of Philippe Delacour (working ca. 1790-1815) has led to a much better understanding of their respective marks.

This information comes from the lavish new book by Christian Hörack, L’Argenterie Lausannoise des XVIIIe et XIXe Siècles (Lausanne: Musée Historique, 2007). It’s a beautiful and exhaustive study of Lausanne silver, cataloguing the large collection of the Musée Historique de Lausanne and presenting much new information on Lausanne makers and marks.

peter netsua
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Postby peter netsua » Sun May 31, 2009 5:40 am

Thankyou Blakstone for your highly informative reply, I value your opinion and would appreciate your further input. The canteen I have is of a similar design throughout, and the initials, which I cannot decipher , are uniform; however there are two different sets of marks. I have tried to send an image of the other set but I cannot do this on a "reply" so if I may I will descbe them

In a squared cartouche are two copperplate J's or F's with a pronounced fullstop after each initial, further down the shaft is a shield with two chevrons and "ARGENT" in a semi-circle underneath

On the teaspoons is the name Vettiner with a shield above with something unidentifiable in the centre

Any information is much appreciated

regards

Peter

dognose
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Postby dognose » Sun May 31, 2009 6:02 am

Hi Peter,

There should be no problem posting images on a 'reply'

Trev.

Joerg
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Teaspoons with the name Vettiner

Postby Joerg » Sun May 31, 2009 9:34 am

Dear Peter

"Vettiner" is the mark of Antoine-Charles Vettiner, 1818-1866, from Geneva. There is also a shield with a funny design on his spoons. I look forward to your pictures.

Jörg

peter netsua
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Postby peter netsua » Sun May 31, 2009 1:25 pm

Image Image Image Image

I hope you can see the marks from these images, this may be easy for you guys but this little lot has taken me nearly 4 hours to sort out, just as well I'm into silver not IT !

regards

Peter

2209patrick
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Postby 2209patrick » Sun May 31, 2009 2:50 pm

Tried to enlarge your picture of the marks. Maybe this will help.

Image

Pat.

blakstone
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Postby blakstone » Sun May 31, 2009 4:52 pm

As Joerg states, “Vettiner” was Antoine-Charles Vettiner (26 Oct 1818-24 Aug 1866) of Geneva. He was a third generation silversmith, the son of Jean-Pierre Vettiner (1794-1836) and grandson of Jean-Marc Vettiner (1758-1814). In addition to silversmithing, Antoine Vettiner was active in politics, serving as a member of Geneva’s Administrative Council from 1850, and as its President (and thus essentially Mayor of Geneva) 1856-1857. After his death, his shop was continued (as a retailer only) by his widow as Veuve Vettiner & Cie. The Vettiner family remained active as luxury goods dealers in Geneva until the early 20th century.

The “J.J.” mark is that of Johann Jakob Jezler (1796-1868) of Schaffhausen. He was apprenticed in 1811 to Johannes Kirchhofer III (1763-1831), became a master on 22 October 1822 and opened his workshop as early as January of the following year. He succeeded his former master as guild warden in 1831 and served until at least 1854, after which the guild was dismantled. His name would eventually become synonymous with Swiss silver, and Jezler remains today the premier silver manufacturer in Switzerland.

However, the chevron mark with “Argent” is a mark used in the canton of Neuchâtel from 1820 to 1866 on 13 Lot (.812) silver. (Neuchâtel and Geneva were only two Swiss cantons to enact civil precious metal control after he fall of Napoléon.) Jezler was a huge supplier to many retailers, and doubtless his pieces your set were therefore retailed in Neuchâtel.

Hope this helps!

peter netsua
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Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:57 pm
Location: south east england

Postby peter netsua » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:06 am

Thankyou again Blakstone for your definitive reply. You have filled all the gaps in my knowledge of this set of silver, I salute you , not only for your knowledge, but also for your preparedness to share it

Best regards

Peter

Theoderich
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Re:

Postby Theoderich » Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:29 am

blakstone wrote:Recent research has revealed that this mark, long attributed to Papus & Dautun, actually belongs to an entirely different Lausanne maker: Jean-Philippe Delacour (1768-aft. 1824).

Hallo blakstone,
I think this ist the mark of Papus & Dautun
Image


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