Worn mark on niello enamel case

[justjon]

Hi,

I cannot identify the marks on what I think is a Russian niello enamel cig case with an unusual opening mechanism, they are fairly warn and there is a mark that reads M&S in a rectangle, can any body help?


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[Theoderich]

its Austrian 900 silver
http://www.925-1000.com/Faustria_02.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kind Regards Theo
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[silverport]

Hello

You are in »925-1000« always welcome with your questions.

Theoderich has already informed that marks are Austrian — more precise 1868-1872. Because in that period was the letter A struck separately = symbol for the Vienna Assay-office.

The »Diana 2« informs that the item is made from 900-1,000 Silver alloys.

And the maker’s mark M&S stand for Markowitsch & Scheid, Vienna VI, Sandwirthgasse 8 (from 1864-1881)

The Silver ware factory was 1848 founded from Michael Markowitsch. In the year 1862 G.A. Scheid became companion; from then on they’ve had the maker’s mark as shown on the item.

1873 they’ve got during Vienna »World Exhibition« a honour medal for their »Niellé-(Tula-) Article in 900-1,000 fineness …«

1882 the Silver ware factory became Markowitsch & Son — maker’s mark remained the same as before Markowitsch & Scheid.

Kind regards silverport
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[Theoderich]

Theoderich has already informed that marks are Austrian — more precise 1868-1872. Because in that period was the letter A struck separately = symbol for the Vienna Assay-office.

Hallo Silverport
on the image I can see the A separately, but there is also an A inside on the right side of the Diana-mark, used between 1872-1922.
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[silverport]

Hello

That’s correct that in the »Diana 2« mark, on the place where from 1872 on the indication letter for each Assay-office has to be, is something what could be remains of a letter. But that that letter is the A, indication for Vienna, or another letter e.g. B, indication for Linz, I hadn’t make out — also by enlarging photo of the mark on the screen with 400 %. Sorry for final, for that reason I’ve ignored it.

Actually, only justjon, the author of the question, could give more information on this. I request him, to give additional information which capital letter he could make out in front of Diana’s nose in the »Diana 2« mark.

The here shown Assay-office marking seems to be a miracle, or at least confusing.

On the lower right edge of the »Diana 2« mark it looks like that there was made an attempt to strike the “little” version of the separate letter indication mark — maybe for reason that there is sufficient space, was then after struck the “normal” letter indication mark?

And then after has been over struck that area maybe with the »Diana 2« mark in force 1867-1872 — and again over struck with the »Diana 2« mark in force 1872-1922? (Be worn maybe for that reason? So it’s over struck at least twice?)

I haven’t actually a sounded clue, so I could guess only: Maybe struck on 1 April 1872? — First day of new assay marks came in force.

But I would make now an own research on this — it would need a while. Because not all, from every where, is available by internet — and it must be read as well, and translated too (I like to translate by my own — my experience with »google translator«: If you haven’t sufficient knowledge of background, you would be “send to” Lagos in Nigeria, instead of to its origin: Lagos in Portugal.)

Kind regards silverport
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[silverport]

Hello all

Maybe that’s the reliable explanation I’ve found in between in Waltraud Neuwirth’s »Wiener Gold- und Silberschmiede und ihre Punzen 1867-1922« (ISBN 3-900282-00-5). In her »Annalen der Wiener Gold- und Silberschmiede«, on page 48 she reports in brief:

»1872, April 1
Act of March 10, 1872, comes into force:
all marks have to include the letter of the
Assay Office (pl. 7). This letter alone is
used for smaller components, of an
Object; if it is not possible to strike it be-
cause of the smallness of these compo-
nents, it has to be placed beside the mark
on the main part of the object.«

The conclusion is, that this cigarettes case, for reason of form of his folding top, has got this top’s A mark struck on the upper frame part of the two hinged cover.

Here with it’s clear that the cigarette case is assayed between 1 April 1872 and …

That actually I must let it remain open: Because Austria-Hungary hasn’t »year« or »month« indications.

On a not reported date in 1882 the Silver ware factory Markowitsch & Scheid became Markowitsch & Son — maker’s mark remained the same as before.

If these special kind of folding were patented, and if yes, for whom: Markowitsch & Scheid, or Markowitsch & Son, or fore somebody else?

Such a kind of Patent could be also an indicator for: Made after …

Also this research I let it remain open. If somebody is interested in searching this, I guess he must doe it in Austrian Patent archive. Maybe justjon would make it by him selves?

Learning by doing — the way we’ve done it before.

Kind regards silverport
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[justjon]

Hello Folks,

Firstly may I clarify that the "Diana 2" mark is the large one next to the M&S maker mark, if so there is a small capital A within that mark infront of the nose of the face. this mark also appears in the same place on the other side of the case and in this the similar striking behind the head (still within the mark) is a 2.
More over the word UNECHT (German for false?) is marked on the spring mechanism of the case? This may be a red herring??

Kind regards,

Jon
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[silverport]

Hello justjon

Thank you for the additional information’s — for the future: Please give already all of additional information’s in the explanations of yours question itself. That prevents time consuming investigations; and could better sound results.

Yours certain apprehensions of to have a “red herring” with the word UNECHT, struck inside of your cigarettes case. It isn’t a “red herring” for them, who have more as only a basic knowledge in markings.

Well for others it’s maybe confusing; because on same item »official assay marks« are in neighbour ship to this; why that?

Every nation who has an official »Assay Office System«, and his control mechanisms, like e.g. Austria-Hungary, France, GB, Russia (until 1917), has regulated the kind of marking of necessary components, made of non-precious material as such, be used in items made of precious material. Look here, e.g. GB »The Hallmarking Act 1973«, pages 30-31: http://www.assayofficelondon.co.uk/docs ... ng_Act.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In your case the non precious, but for controls maybe invisible part, is the torsion bar spring in hinges tube, between the two main flaps of holding the cigarettes.

For to could handle the cigarette case, with only one hand to be “free”, and for to could offer to the other in a gesture of elegancy a cigarette, it was necessary to build in a spring mechanism, who opens already by “one touch” only.

The main advantages of a torsion bar spring is their durability; and their slim profile in the dimension of the hinge. She needs less of the item's interior or exterior volume, in comparisions to other springs systems, like e.g. coil springs. A torsion bar spring is like as a “normal” bar, who fits the two parts of a hinge together to a functional hinge.

One end of the torsion bar spring is fixed on one end of the, let me say lower end of left hand flap; the other end is fixed on the upper end of the right hand flap.

In “open” position, the torsion bar spring is in a “relaxed” or “0” position — when be closed, the a torsion bar spring ends have moved their ends position to each other; and be laying in wait on the opportunity to could serve again, opening the flaps wide open again.

Until yet I don’t know the primary inventor of the torsion spring principle — in the first halve of 20 century has start the application of that principle in the automotive industry. Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsion_bar" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Many claims were made, to be the inventor — maybe all were smokers? But in the Patent Registry Offices were smokers as well.

Kind regards silverport

P.S. Please look also here for some other general information’s: http://www.assayofficelondon.co.uk/down ... links.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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